Why do so many people believe in God.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by mustafhakofi, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Sort of. But, many people who need the idea say they need the idea with their mouth, and that they don't need it with their actions. And, some people say they don't with their mouth, and that they do with their actions.

    Your predicament is not unique to your perspective. But, in many ways you are right.

    Well said. On the other side of the coin, those that do not have faith have no business debating the Bible or spiritual things with those that do, unless they are open to finding faith through understanding of our scriptures.
     
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  3. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Too true.

    Actually I'd argue that my precise predicament certainly is... my reasons are mine and necessarily, can't be yours even if we claim them the same with our words.

    That's just not true though. Those who do not have faith in scriptures or deities are exactly prone to debate anything that comes their way. Again, if those faithful to deities are truly faithful, they have nothing to debate with a non-theist, whereas a non-theist has plenty to debate with someone who claims themselves and theist and summarily proceeds to debate their faith, which should not by definition, be debatable.

    Is an "understanding of christian scriptures", the only way to believe in god? Are scriptures, obviously written by men, actually a means to understand a deity? Isn't that what you were complaining about before... "putting god in a box"?
     
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  5. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I thought. I was wrong. Faith in God is also recognizing that the nature of an all-powerful God cannot be contained in a book. The first Christians did not treat the scripture as an instruction manual that is black and white. Over the years, Christians have dumbed down and just taken other people's interpretations of the scripture. In doing so, a box was made. We Chrisitans must step out of arrogance and allow God to be beyond understanding, but we are still to learn more about God daily.

    In years past, church leaders would have an interpretation of the scripture and if you followed that interpretation, you were considered to be "of this person or that person" so that others could understand where you are coming from in your understanding. Interpretations were not made by individuals, but by debate. By taking an interpretation of the bible as black and white, we put God in a box and a yoke on ourselves.
     
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  7. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    True. Guess that's the downside of bringing up faith in a scientific forum.

    No.

    Yes.

    Yes, there was a time in which there was no Bible and the same God was spoken of. How quickly we forget and want the Bible to be our Christian way to heaven because we can touch it, study it, and test it. If there is a God, I would hope that I he was a little beyond human understanding. What good is a God that we can scientifically understand and prove?
     
  8. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    I can dig that, but the same reasoning would seem to me to lead to the book being no more relevant than a science book, or something from Tsun Tsu, or Zen or whatever philosophical/religious books gan be used to gain wisdom.

    Either way, if you say scriptures don't put "god in a box", then that's your view. Fine by me.

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  9. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the relevance to life is that it says that a god loves you and has many people making many decisions. Some good and many bad. Through other people's mistakes and successes we can avoid screwing up so much. So, yes the Bible is not necessary and is irrelevant to having faith or God's existence...but it helps to walk the straight and narrow.
     
  10. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Thus showing beyond any reasonable doubt that your entire set of beliefs rests upon nothing more than a guess, a hope, a desire, need or dream. As is most often the case dreams do not work out as we envision them. In the case of a religious man it isn't of any real consequence given that by the time his dreams are found fruitless, it's far too late to care.

    The simple remaining question is what dream/need are you ever so much hoping to be true? Afterlife perhaps? In short: you don't want to die.

    I can very much understand that position, for neither do the rest of us.. But wishing upon a star is of no benefit whatsoever other than to cloud a scared mind and close yourself off from the inescapable facts.
     
  11. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, yes that makes sense.

    I just have a personal problem with the word "scripture", as it basically places the words of men in the mouth of that which they claim to be divine, which is maximal ego. As you framed it though, it's handbook of sorts not to be taken excessively seriously. I can dig it.

    Thanks for the pleasant and positive exchange.
     
  12. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    No, I mean Jesus.

    That's not possible, he never wrote anything down for you to read.

    Who is Paul Q.?

    He's the guy who self-admittedly made up the entire story of Jesus, who by the way, he never met.
     
  13. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    It just occured to me that this:

    "Sort of. But, many people who need the idea say they need the idea with their mouth, and that they don't need it with their actions. And, some people say they don't with their mouth, and that they do with their actions."

    is the reason that this:

    "Neither should spend too much time trying to convince the other they're wrong, or we're fueling the fire that's just a difference in need.

    is a non-statement. while there are people, there will always be fuel for that fire.
     
  14. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Jesus never wrote anything down because he didn't exist. Strangely, Paul may not have existed either. He could have been a made-up character by the Roman Emperors who may have been the writers of the NT. The NT simply cannot be believed. It's sad to know that so many christians do, though, but they're an ignorant lot.
     
  15. Yorda_7 Guest

    So, what do you think was the purpose in writing the NT? Some people just thought: ah, let's write a story, then millions of people started thinking that the story is "real"?

    And about Paul... what does it matter if he didn't meet Jesus or if he didn't exist? The story can still be real, just not in the way you think...

    ex: just like the old greek myths are "real", but still not real... like the characters are purely fictional... but still they represent something real... it's possible to teach people with fiction-- it's possible to have educational truth in fictional stories.

    Like the story about santa claus.... its message is that if children are nice, they get happiness... if you are nice to others, they are nice to you... isn't that right (mostly)?
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Jesus never wrote anything down because he didn't exist. Strangely, Paul may not have existed either.

    Perhaps, but I think we are jumping ahead here. I'd like to see where Dalahar goes with this, how he substantiates his morality from Jesus.
     
  17. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: The purpose of writing the NT was for Roman political/psychological control over the masses. The RCC is the head of this political movement.

    It does matter about Paul. Had he existed, his name was Saul which stands for "Sol." We've already been there. Myths aren't real. They may be based on certain legends, but they're still not real.

    People are suckers for the supernatural.
     
  18. Yorda_7 Guest

    I think most of the NT is real (depends on how you define real), but because some people (church?) were still egoistical, they saw how faithfully people obeyed everything that was said in the Bible since it was said to be the word of Truth, so they couldn't resist the temptation to take advantage of their blind belief. They distorted the religion a bit and put their own things there to control people.

    Some people can see through the evil things in the Bible, but many Christians believe the bible is infallible so they just blindly believe everything without even thinking... it's really sad. They also haven't thought that they may have the wrong interpretation of it.

    I don't really understand your definition of real.
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Lets' assume Jesus did exist. He, nor anyone else wrote anything down in regards to his life or his works. Paul, who admittedly made up the story of Jesus never met the man and claimed to have written the story based upon visions he had of Jesus long after he arose from the dead.

    One must therefore believe entirely in Pauls visions.

    Can you say, 'Paulianity?'
     
  20. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. At this point and time in my life, I have not completely surrendered my life. I want to do more each day because I want to ensure my place with him in eternity that he promises. That part is hope, but at this point my problem is that I don't need God much of the time. The sorry fact against me is that I need God to breathe each day, but it is so easy to be complacent in the world and I don't stop and appreciate the gift as much as I should. God made me a logical thinker by breed and by my environment as a child. That part of me puts doubts in my head. Then, you mix all that with improbable events taking place which could only be explained as God's handiwork (which is where my faith and trust come in). Then, I have a difficult choice because of what I have been through to just believe that it all was random chance, or that God had a hand on me all the time. Because each event's occurance built and related upon the previous random event, I cannot logically say that the events were in fact random. Because of their relation and correlation, I am convinced that they are not coincidences. I cannot say for sure that this is the case, but only that they probably were not random, and that is why I lay aside my logical doubts to embrace what I was given, which is my faith. God has earned my trust. I have faith first out of fear of an improbable being's existence we have not yet discovered, then trust, then hope. How can I have faith in an improbable being? Because of what I've been through, what I see others go through, and physical evidence that suggests (but not proves) that the Bible's accounts are accurate. I have no evidence to prove God, but that is why it is called faith, and it is not wasted. Faith is useful to life and living and keeps you calm in desperate situations. Faith removes stress's severity. There are other ways to do this, but I choose to believe in this way and hope for the unexpected after I die or before. It is a tough road for a logical mind, but the rewards are great and I have the opinion that there is a God, so it is getting easier to have faith because God is proving Godself to me everyday I doubt God!
     
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Yorda, I must say that at times you freak me out with your naivete, but then at other times, you show wisdom.

    Let me see if I can explain what I meant by "real." Myths are "real" in that they are "myths." One could not state literally that "myths aren't real, " because myths do "exist." Whether or not they have any truth or substance is another matter entirely. As far a myths go, I could honestly state that Heracles exists today, and Jesus exists today -- in mythic form, but it is highly doubtful that these characters ever lived and breathed. Does this shed more light on my definition of "real?"
     
  22. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: I hope you're staying dry, dalahar. I've been thinking about you!

    Mr. Aesop existed, and he taught morality, but the tortoise and hare didn't exist in his fable.
     
  23. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Paulianity is not christianity, but those folks who believe themselves to be christians really aren't.
     

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