Why do ppl like Stephen Hawking so much

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Over the years, I have consistently fought on three fronts:

1. against simplistic theism,
2. against simplistic atheism,
3. for true religion (even though I'm not sure what that would be, so I approach the issue ex negativo).


I don't simply take sides.
Sometimes, I agree with the theists and disagree with the atheists. Other times, I agree with the atheists and disagree with the theists. It all depends on what the topic in question is.

But apparently, many posters here are unable or unwilling to understand this, and would prefer a simplistic black-and-white division into opposing camps.

If your life and your outlook are so superior, so great, so true - then why the need for a helium bag in the end?

You are not convincing at all.

Clearly, that doesn't work for everyone. That is a fact.


But if you are so compassionate, so understanding, so civilized, so intelligent, so superior as you imply to be:

Why then do you ignore the concerns of all those people who don't find your kind of outlook comforting?
Why do you openly hate them?

 

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I challenge you and other posters here who directly or indirectly claim to have superior knowledge, who directly or indirectly claim to know The Truth.

Whether you declare yourself as a theist, and atheist, an agnostic, or anything else, that is of little importance.

 

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And what is "The Truth"?

 

Uh. The "rotting molars" is a reference for the aging and decaying of the whole human body and its abilities.

Do you really believe that the aim of religion is to heal or ease the problems the human body faces as it ages and gets ill???

 

I don't know.

But if anyone ever directly or indirectly claims to know it, chances are I will question them on this topic.

I might not know what The Truth is, but in such cases, the ex-negativo approach (ie. looking at what The Truth possibly is not) is the next best course of action.

 

Well said wynn, I like that attitude.

 

You may say that, and you may even believe it, but your actual responses often tend to draw a line in the sand, such as your remarks above about simplistic world views. Such characterization implies private access to some sort of truth that forms the line of demarcation.

Furthermore, you often express the negative as if it is The Truth. You are often effective in making the counterpoint override the main theme. Note, already Stephen Hawking has vanished from your focus.

You are quick to lash out at "science" but almost of a purely cynical view, and not in a way that lends to understanding. You demonstrate a background in philosophy, but you tend to wield it as as a tool for dismantling the contributions of others. In particular I notice this during discussions inquiring into best evidence of what is or is not known or knowable. This may be why Hawking ought to be understood from his remark:

"Traditionally, these are questions for philosophy, but philosophy is dead,” he said. “Philosophers have not kept up with modern developments in science. Particularly physics.” Prof Hawking went on to claim that “Scientists have become the bearers of the torch of discovery in our quest for knowledge.”
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/8520033/Stephen-Hawking-tells-Google-philosophy-is-dead.html

 

It's impossible to participate in a discussion without seeming to "draw a line in the sand."
You do it too, everyone does.

Then that could possibly be because my counterpoint is better than the main theme!

This thread is about why people like Stephen Hawking.
That has precious little to do with Stephen Hawking.

We had a thread on this at least once.

Like I said:

I challenge you and other posters here who directly or indirectly claim to have superior knowledge, who directly or indirectly claim to know The Truth.

Whether you declare yourself as a theist, and atheist, an agnostic, or anything else, that is of little importance.

 

I think someone was just about to corner the market on that until you called them to the carpet. Probably the truth is something we might call Hawking's Molar. (It will no doubt pertain to how watered down an argument is)

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BTW I enjoy reading your remarks which are clever, concise and witty. I'm sure there's a hundred others with the same opinion, even if one person felt the need to snipe.

 

My first recollection of being set upon for evidence to establish a line in the sand was in an encounter with you. I have had very few instances of being pushed in that direction.

Dilemma: how do you support that without falling into the "arrogant/enlightened" & etc characterizations you tend to ascribe to me?

Here you go. You're winding up again. So: People don't like him for who and what he is? The OP specifically offered tripe for us to dissect and remove the worms from:

why do they? i mean he doesnt seem like anything special to me. all he does it cry about how there is no god cause god made him that way. he is smart, but a bit overrated. i like

You don't think a person of his life experience and accomplishments deserves a more fair treamtment than that? You want The Truth. OK here's a morsel: what a pile of crap. And here's why... and then we get to discussing the advent and formalization of the BB singularity or black hole radiation, and how and why these relate to his disability and his atheism. And suddenly we discover it has everything to do with Hawking, once we went in pursuit of The Truth about this bum wrap.

No doubt. I didn't bother to check.

Remove the excess baggage in that, and all you are left with is the most basic reason a person would stumble through these threads with some kind of thoughtful interaction in the first place.

I like this King/Queen of the Hill premise who directly or indirectly claim to have superior knowledge. Nearly everyone has superior knowledge of something. For all I know you invented toe floss and I'm waiting on my next royalty check for my patent for putting tap water in bottles and actually selling it.

I don't think superior knowledge is proper treatment. Knowledge would suffice. I enjoy having my powers of recall tested, and I've even fetched a bone or two for you that you dismissed, practically telling me "let them eat cake!"

The best kind of exchanges were the ones where I was found wrong, and able to learn from it. In most cases I stumbled onto these discoveries while trying to remember what it is that I think I know.

The problem with you is, or will be, that you constantly expect every fact to be checked at the door, left in the closet, with a tag that says "epistemology" or "empiricist" or (whatever) suspended, left in limbo, without hope of doing actual discovery and "enlightenment".

Facts tend to speak for themselves. You remind me of the attorney that wants the evidence overruled, to keep it out of court, as a way of protecting a position, not as way of getting to The Truth.

And all the while you are saying this is the way folks are treating you.

Care for some tripe sushi? It's on sale now at the OP.

 

My question about Hawking is does he have any bad sides at all when it comes to his scientific theories?
So far I haven't seen any scientist crticize him...

 

yet for some reason even the most minimalist of dentists would suggest at least brushing those one plans on keeping ....

hence, (i)meanwhile your molars rot ....(/i)


:shrug:

 

hence you could term having rotting molars merely one of the delightful benchmarks passed on the journey to death

feel free to indicate the alternatives to existing in a state where various diseases are competing for supremacy

hence its about attempting to solve the small problems and pretending that the big problems (like death, afforded via rotting molars and the like) don't exist

w-w-w-w-w-w-w ... that's almost one control point you have there

:shrug:

 

I guess all we need now are viable synthetic companions to ceramic teeth (I guess a manufactured digestive tract impervious to the tides of time would be a wonderful compliment to ceramic teeth) to complete your utopian dreams riding post-dated rain cheques of scientific discovery ....

:shrug:

 

So you are trying to say that old age has not pummeled you yet or do you simply think you are beyond it?

 

Lightgigantic and Wynn,

Perhaps I am afraid of death. I honestly am uncertain if I am or not.
I have faced death, several times... I am proud to say I handled it well but then again, each time it would have been quick. Not slow nor agonizing.

If I was facing slow painful death, I think I'd fear death then.

But you know, I'm not afraid to die.

Weird, huh? I might fear the implement of my death, I'm not sure. But I'm not afraid of being dead.

I think that maybe you two are.

 

If all there is to our life is those 70 years or so, and if in the grand scheme of things, we are irrelevant, then it is simply a matter of consistency to conclude that whatever we do, in our lives, on a moment by moment, hour by hour basis, is irrelevant too.
And if that is the case, then why bother?


Or, as Camus said it:

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterward. These are games; one must first answer.

 

Then you've got no more than the rest of us. You might want to tone down the arrogant judgmental attitude.

 

Warning!
Long drawn out gibbering follows:

Humanity has been around for a very short time. In the grand scheme of things, we're the new kids. In the grand scheme of things, not only are we not out of diapers, yet, we haven't even gotten into them.
It's like... we can see the doctor hovering over us with the scalpel and we're waiting for him to cut the umbilical cord.
We're still dependent on our nature. I'm not even sure if we're ready for that cord to be cut.

We're just getting here and we're not even sure when we'll be saying goodbye.
GRB's and Wayward objects that may impact the Earth- We're not a protected species. We're going to have to fend for ourselves and we're not even grown up enough to do that, yet. So that puts us at pretty high risk that we not make it to our tweens. Or beyond- as adults, roaming the galaxy.
It all might end ten years from now. We'll be gone and no one will know.
Eh, most likely. Unless something, who knows when, stumbles across a Pioneer or Voyager probe...

So why bother anything, you might ask?

Because we are here. Right now, we are here. We have each other. We have this world. And if it weren't for science- we wouldn't even be aware of how much we can damage it.
And if it weren't for science, we wouldn't have the means to make repairs if it dawned on us that we had damaged it.

I don't need a God to love me for me to feel love. I don't need the afterlife to give me assurance I can live beyond death.
But we do need Science. We need it to help ourselves.

Every moment I share with my son, every pain and every lesson and all the times we spent playing outside- He will keep those and replicate them with his own. My grandson- who has not happened. And that grandson will pass that on to his son... and so on.
The Memory.
Every moment. Everyone you ever loved, everyone you ever fought with, everyone that inspired you or tried to beat you down- these are what we are. Because the moments just keep passing but the Memories are everything.
It's why we document and take pictures and make recordings- We hold to the memory, we sing songs, tell tales, make movies and write books. And, thanks to science, we have whole new means at our disposal to record and share memories.

We don't have the luxury of permanence. The assurance of "forever."
We have to take the moments we have and make memories out of them. Make them Count. We cannot call upon a God to save us. We cannot ask him to fix us. If one thing is made clear by the faiths: We must help ourselves.

And guess what? Maybe in the Grand Scheme of things... it won't matter.
But it matters to me. To try. We are here and as long as we are here, it matters to us. To each other.

So, my son and I, we climb up onto the roof for some Stargazing. School's out... a few late nights won't kill the boy...

And he looks at the almighty, huge and powerful stars in the sky...
And he does something that they cannot do: He wonders what he will do tomorrow...

Whatever he decides to do, today, I will give him the memories. A gift, from father to son.