Why do humans tolerate squirrels? Psycho-symbiotic evolution?

I was sitting here watching the dozens of squirrels around my girlfriend's house here in the city, and could not help but noticing that without the furry tail, a squirrel would essentially look like a rat.

I suspect that we would be a lot less likely to tolerate squirrels crawling up and down our trees if they looked like "vermin" rodents. So, over time one might speculate that "cuter" rodents would tend to enhance those characteristics more acceptable to human beings.

Another potential example of psycho-symbiotic evolution might be the butterfly. Humans tend to detest most insects and enthusiastically work to eradicate them. The butterfly is a rare exception.

Of course these "attractive to human" characteristics were originally evolved for purely practical purposes (tails for stability, coloration for attracting mates, etc., etc.) My question is whether over time certain species are prolferating and/or evolving human-tolerable appearances or behaviors in order to better share human environments.

 

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absolutely. anything advantageous to the animal will benefit the species in the long run and become inherited. the most eye-pleasing animals will receive the most food and are less likely to be seen as pests.

 

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Thankfully some pests are so resourceful that humans have been unable to eradicate them...for example the squirrel with the naked tail...the rat.

 

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I think the rat got its less-than-savory reputation due to its propensity for dwelling amid environs humans consider dirty, disgusting, disease-ridden, etc... Not to mention its being a plague-vector via its fleas...
Also, squirrels, while upsetting the occaisonal bird-lover by chowing down on the contents of their feeders, don't - at least to my knowledge - invade granaries to feast on the contents, bringing or breeding dozens/hundreds/more of their fellows to do the same.
A squirrel may seem "cuter" because it bears a vague resemblance to a humanoid by virtue of the fact that it appears to use "hands" and appears to possess a rudimentary "intellect" (note how it can defeat most of the "anti-squirrel" measures intended to keep it from eating the contents of the birdfeeders)

 

rats use their hands also

 

1. They dont eat our food stores. 2. They dont usually get inside our housed and spread disease. 3. Their "cuteness" triggers parental instincts.

4. I DO like rats. I own several as pets. I breed dumbo rats.

 

Apologize to the forum for the erratic nature of my posts and responses. This is a great forum - soon I should have a bit more time to participate, I hope.

yayacatfight

“anything advantageous to the animal will benefit the species in the long run"

yah… so I suspect so, too. But it would be interesting to see how (or how not) natural selection is working to actually modify characteristics to be more acceptable by other species that in some cases may be enemies. I think there are parallels out there in other areas of the animal kingdom, but my sieve-like mind is unable to recall examples.

spuriousmonkey

“some pests are so resourceful that humans have been unable to eradicate them...for example the squirrel with the naked tail...the rat.”

Definitely – and of course there is always our eternal companion, the lowly cockroach. There’s an insect that doesn’t need to improve their appearance to prosper – in fact, their method may be to send out a few sacrificial specimens for the humans to crush while the remaining millions hang out in walls and under carpets waiting for darkness.

Killjoy

I agree about the reputations of the rat… and squirrels CAN be destructive by digging and destroying tuberous plants in our yards and gardens.

“A squirrel may seem "cuter" because it bears a vague resemblance to a humanoid by virtue of the fact that it appears to use "hands"”

Hadn’t thought of that – rats do that too, don’t they, according to spuriousmonkey? It’s been a while since I watched a rat feed. I agree – maybe we also tend to think of raccoons and bears as being “cute” for the same reason.

“appears to possess a rudimentary "intellect” “

hmmm maybe… although I have seen birds that displayed smarts at nearly the same level as the squirrel. I have some cherry trees – every year I fight birds for the fruit, and they can be plenty wily when it comes to claiming their prize.

Clockwood

"squirrels don't eat our food stores"

True, unless you count nuts. How about hickory and walnut trees? They do eat those nuts and I often gather those for my own use. But I guess those really aren’t “stores”. Although I am sure if you left them in a shed or something that squirrels would try to get at them.

"cuteness" triggers parental instincts”

Interesting idea. Maybe that is the key aspect of this adaptation? I am still curious about the whole idea of natural selection inadvertently being triggered by the behavior/psyche of another (potentially enemy) species.

“ I breed dumbo rats.”

What are dumbo rats???

 

Dumbo rats are a breed of rats with ears ~1/3 larger than usual. They are also more placid than normal rats for some reason. Mine are cream colored.

Try a google search for more.

 

This thread reminds me of the Heike crabs:

Once upon a time, there were two warring samurai clans - the Heike and the Gengi. They fought a long war to claim the imperial
throne. The decisive battle was fought in the sea. The Heike lost. Those who were not killed decided that death was more
honourable. (Their samurai code probably has this proverb: He who runs away, live to die another day!) They threw themselves
into the sea and drowned. The entire Heike clan was wiped out except for some ladies-in-waiting, who were forced to marry
the fishermen near the scene of the battle.

Today, if you visit Danno-ura, Japan on April 24, you will see fishermen (descendants of the Heike) commemorating the battle in
a religious ceremony. Among other things, they will tell you that these slain warriors still live at the bottom of the ocean and have
reincarnated as Heike crabs. These crabs have patterns on the backs that look exactly like the samurai face. These sacred
crabs are not eaten; they are thrown back into the sea when caught.

Dr Carl Sagan once told this story to illustrate the power of artificial selection. If your carapace accidentally looked like a face,
the chances of survival are higher because you are thrown back. Over the years, the preferential reproduction of these crabs
created the samurai face.

 

Konek

That's a great example. Now I get to learn about artificial selection, both intentional and unintentional.

Interesting how this could occur in very subtle but definite ways - challenging to even find a way to measure it.

 

Why do we tolerate blondes ?

Their intelligence is the same as squirrels and they are just as cute...

Boy, if I get filthy rich like Bill Gates, I will pay them Japanese fishermen to throw back all crabs that bear patterns remotely like me !

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:m:

 

I don't think it has much to do with squirrels having a tail. Even without a tail squirrels would look cut - and they're friendly. I remember when I lived in my college dorm. We would put tracks of bread or nuts out at intervals to attract the squirrels to come in to our apartment. We'd be able to lead them right on top of our computer screen while we were doing homework. And there the squirrel would be, looking down at me from on top my computer screen while I typed away. Some people have even been able to attract squirrels to rest on their lap. They're cute!

 

Yet without insects humans wouldn't be alive. Many bees pollinate trees and bushes to keep them growing. Without trees and bushes humans wouldn't bee here.

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Non-sequitur time;
One day I heard a screaming noise like a tortured cat high in the trees; there was a squirrel, screaming at the top of it's tiny lungs at a completely silent cat which had it trapped in a tree.
Squirrels have surprisingly loud voices whern cornered.

 

Feral Rock Doves are quite cool too.

 

I had a pet chimpmunk once: they're cute too! But the raccoon I once caught looked like it had rabies so I let it go. That was probably a dumb thing to do, but at that age - maybe I was 8 or 9 - I didn't know any better.

Yeah, we had all kinds of squirrels outside our dorm and they'd just scream for reasons unknown to me. I think its also a way for them to warn other squirrels of a possible danger too.

 

>Dr Carl Sagan once told this story to illustrate the power of artificial selection. If your >carapace accidentally looked like a face,
>the chances of survival are higher because you are thrown back. Over the years, the >preferential reproduction of these crabs
>created the samurai face.

I just saw that recently. On the Science Channel they're reviving "Cosmos".

Watcher's post made me think. I'd never really thought about the "cuteness" factor for survival.

 

This is interesting but can you explain more? I don't quite understand it? Carapace is the bony shield covering the back. Was Sagan suggesting that crabs survived because of a samurai-like face cuteness? How would this be recognizable in aquatic life? Let alone to suggest it among humans. Certainly cuteness is preferable to ugliness and is a factor in survival in humans. Guys normally are attracted to cute girls and the like.

 

Hi Fraggle! Do you live in L.A.?

I'm not so sure about coyotes carrying their tail upright to "sashay" around, but it's an interesting thought - cute too! The reason that I bring this up is because I have a Norwegian Elkhound. All Elkhounds have tight curly tails, but why? I'm almost 100% positive it's due to intense inbreeding. This may also be the reason among coyotes in L.A.?

They have a very intensive ongoing study with inbreeding foxes in Russia. Coyotes, foxes, wolves, dogs - all in the same Canidae family. This is a very large inbreeding project involving hundreds of foxes selected for breeding depending on human desirable traits such as less aggression. One of the first abnormalities - or "novelties" as they call it - was that the a large percentage of the offspring over multiple generations started to develop curly uplifted tails! Another novelty was white spotting or white patches on various parts of their fur. So I'm not so sure that the curly coyote tails are due to being near to humans? Especially with the expanding population into coyote territory limiting their natural range. I think it might be possibly because the coyote population around L.A. has diminished to the point where they are now also having the same inbreeding "novelty"? Don't know.