Why did WWII happen ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Brian Foley, May 6, 2004.

  1. Dean Banned Banned

    Messages:
    27
    which one of these historic versions sounds like Robert L Thompsetts known as quelquechosdartre

    This is written by freemasons trying to explain away crimes pulled
    on fellow human beings


    The Morgan affair aftermath
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------


    In brief, William Morgann3 was an itinerant worker who settled in
    Batavian1 in 1824. He managed to convince the Freemasons of Batavia
    that he was a Freemason and participated in lodge activities, made
    speeches and visited other Lodges. He signed a petition for the
    formation of a Royal Arch Chapter in Batavia, but some other Masons
    questioned his masonic legitimacy. Another Royal Arch petition was
    then submitted, which he was not permitted to sign.n2 Morgan was
    furious about this, and vowed revenge. He agreed to work with David
    [C.] Miller, n5 the publisher of the Batavia Advocate, the local
    newspaper, and several partners, in the publication of a book
    exposing Freemasonry. The project was made public and there was
    pandemonium among the Masons of Batavia and the surrounding towns in
    western New York, leading ultimately to his disappearance on
    September 19th, 1826.n16 It is generally agreed that William Morgan
    was taken to Canada by Masons and there given $500 and a horse, with
    the agreement that he never return. However, despite a lack of
    conclusive evidence, rumors persisted that he had been murdered.
    Business Opportunities
    David Miller saw the interest in Morgan's disappearance as an
    opportunity to publish and make money, and copies of his book, in a
    125 page paperback pamphlet, came off his press and sold for a
    dollar. There was soon a demand for a second edition, but the
    competition from other anti-Masonic books and pamphlets was so great
    he was forced to drop the price to fifty cents. The publication of
    anti-Masonic literature flourished and by 1832 there were 141 anti-
    masonic newspapers in the United States. In February, 1828, forty-
    one Masons, really ex-Masons, led by Baptist pastor David Bernard,
    author of the popular anti-Masonic Book Rituals and Illustrations of
    Masonry, met in Le Roy, a small town about ten miles east of
    Batavia. The group included David Miller, the printer, and George
    Harris, a partner in the project to print Morgan's book. They
    referred to themselves as "Seceding Masons" and were later known as
    the Anti-Masonic Society. Speeches were given, Morgan's
    Illustrations of Freemasonry was praised, information purporting to
    be parts of Masonic ritual were distributed and a committee,
    including David Miller, was appointed to print further "exposés" of
    Masonic degrees.
    Declaration of Independence
    A second meeting of the Anti-Masonic Society was held in March,
    1828. Politicians, always looking for a new issue, were now
    interested. Thurlow Weed (1797-1882), publisher of the Rochester
    Telegraph and later of the National Anti-Masonic Enquirer, was
    present. The March meeting adjourned and business was resumed in
    July [4 and 5] with the adoption of the "Declaration of Independence
    from the Masonic Institution" which contained eighteen charges
    against Freemasonry. Those in attendance included the Reverend David
    Bernard, George Harris, Edward Giddins, David Miller and Thurlow
    Weed. The contents of the "Declaration" were publicized repeatedly
    by Soloman Southwick in the "Rochester Observer" and by Thurlow Weed
    and others elsewhere. A fourth meeting was held in August, in Utica,
    in which the political aspect of the anti-Masonic movement took
    shape. A resolution was adopted in which they pledged to "...wholly
    disregard the two great political parties that at this time distract
    from the state of the Union, in the choice of candidates for office
    and to nominate anti-Masonic candidates for Governor and Lieutenant
    Governor." They also resolved to withhold all support from
    candidates who were Masons.
    Thurlow Weed
    Opposition to Freemasonry 10 quickly spread to other states. In
    Pennsylvania, there were many members of religious groups who were
    opposed to the taking of oaths, including the Quakers, Lutherans,
    Mennonites, Dunkards, Moravians and the German Reformed Church. In
    Vermont, the legislature passed an act forbidding the taking of
    extrajudicial oaths and Masons were forbidden to hold local offices
    or be members of juries. In New York, the Anti-Masonic Society had
    become a political party and began to support candidates as the Anti-
    Masonic Party. The well-known Thurlow Weed rose to become the
    acknowledged leader of the party. Weed was born in Cairo, New York
    on November 15, 1797. He was apprenticed to a printer at the age of
    14 and worked there until the beginning of the War of 1812, where he
    served as a volunteer. After the war he worked as a journalist for
    several newspapers until 1822, when he became editor of the
    Rochester Telegraph. He became involved in the Morgan case and later
    founded the Albany Evening Journal, an anti-Masonic publication
    which he edited for thirty-three years.
    The Anti-Masonic Party in NY
    Weed was a skilled politician 4 and, although he declined to hold
    high political office, was influential in the nominations of
    presidents Benjamin Harrison and Zachary Taylor. In 1828, the Anti-
    Masonic Party nominated Soloman Southwick as its candidate for
    Governor of New York. He received 33,345 votes, but was defeated. In
    1829, 22 of its candidates were elected to the New York State
    Assembly, and one candidate, Albert H. Tracy, was elected to the
    State Senate. A leading member of the New York Anti-Masonic Party
    was William Seward, who later served two terms as Governor, served
    in the United States Senate from 1849 until 1861, and was Abraham
    Lincoln's Secretary of State. He is best remembered today for his
    role in the purchase of Alaska from Russia. By 1832, the number of
    Anti-Masons in the New York State Assembly had increased to 33.
    Anti-Masons in Pennsylvania
    Anti-masonic feeling was also strong in the neighboring state of
    Pennsylvania. On June 23, 1829, an Anti-Masonic Convention was held
    in Harrisburg with delegates from 10 of Pennsylvania's 52 counties.
    The convention was addressed by Richard Whittlesly, who urged the
    formation of an organized Anti-Masonic Party with a full slate of
    candidates. Joseph Ritner, their candidate for governor, lost the
    election, but did surprisingly well. The Anti-Masons elected one
    Congressman, one state Senator and 15 state Assemblymen, and were
    elated with their success. The Anti-Masonic representation in the
    state legislature stayed about the same after the elections of 1831.
    In 1832, Joseph Ritner again ran for governor, but this time he lost
    by the narrow margin of only 3,000 votes (91,315 to 88,186.) The
    strength of the Anti-Masonic vote drew national attention from the
    major political parties.
    Thaddeus Stevens, Rise...
    Thaddeus Stevens (born 1792) was elected in 1833 to the Pennsylvania
    legislature. He was born in Danville, Vermont, was a graduate of
    Dartmouth College and had been practicing law in Gettysburg. He is
    remembered today for his role after the Civil War and as a leader in
    the movement to impeach Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson (a
    Mason.) Stevens was a passionate individual who found a cause in
    anti-Masonry. He almost immediately began introducing bills which
    attacked Masonry (and the Odd Fellows,) and the controversy this
    created gave new life to the anti-Masonic movement in Pennsylvania.
    His first bill included provisions to challenge jurors and judges if
    they were Masons, and to question a court case in which the
    defendant and judge were both Masons. The bill was defeated, but the
    discussion which surrounded it created a new interest in anti-
    Masonry.
    A second bill, entitled, "An act to suppress secret societies bound
    together by secret and unlawful oaths," included a fine of $100 for
    anyone administering an oath to initiate or advance someone in a
    society, and that those present could be compelled to testify. It
    also required the full disclosure of the society's membership.
    ...and Fall
    There was resistance to the second bill, but it eventually was
    passed by substituting "Secret Societies" for "Masons" and "Odd
    Fellows." Joseph Ritner was elected governor in 1835, and Stevens
    immediately began a furious attack on the Masonic Fraternity. By now
    the political climate was beginning to change in Pennsylvania, and
    the public was tiring of Thaddeus Stevens' tirades against the
    Fraternity. He was defeated in his bid for reelection to the
    Pennsylvania Legislature in 1836 and Pennsylvania's period of
    intense anti-Masonic activity ended. There was anti-Masonic activity
    in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, but not to the degree of the
    activity in New York and Pennsylvania. In both states the lodges
    were better organized and better able to resist the anti-Masonic
    attacks.
    Anti-Masonic feelings were very strong in Vermont. In 1831, William
    A. Palmer, an Anti-Mason, was elected governor. Palmer and his
    fellow Anti-Masons managed to control the state legislature until
    1835, when their vote began to decline. By 1836, Anti-Masonry was no
    longer an effective force in Vermont.
    Seven Devoted Brothers
    In 1831, the Anti-Masonic Party held a national nominating
    convention in Baltimore where thirteen states were represented by
    116 delegates. Many of the delegates were in favor of endorsing
    Henry Clay (a Mason and Past Grand Master of Kentucky, 1820-21) the
    National Republican candidate, but William Wirt of Maryland (a
    Mason) was their candidate. Wirt did poorly in the Presidential
    election, winning only the state of Vermont. The election of 1832
    was won by Andrew Jackson, another Mason and Past Grand Master of
    Tennessee (1822-24). The effect of the anti-Masonic movement on
    lodge attendance and on the number of lodges was devastating.
    Immediately after William Morgan's disappearance, Batavia Lodge #433
    was so divided among the membership that it soon stopped meeting.
    Only a few lodges in western New York survived. Olive Branch Lodge
    No. 39 located in Le Roy, worked throughout this period, and is
    given credit for saving Freemasonry in Western New York. It was held
    together by seven devoted brothers. Ark Lodge No. 33, in Geneva, was
    kept together by seven members who, at times, were required to meet
    secretly.
    From New York to New England
    Lodges were entered and desecrated. Lodge records and charters were
    stolen due to the anti-Masonic hostility.
    In 1826, there were 480 Masonic Lodges in the state of New York with
    a membership of 20,000, but from 1827 until 1835, the number of
    lodges declined from 228 in 1827 to 49 in 1835. In 1850, the number
    was back up to 172, and by 1860, there were 432 lodges in New York.
    The New England states all felt the effects of the anti-Masonic
    movement: Connecticut lost about half of its constituent lodges.
    Until 1820, Maine was part of the state of Massachusetts. In 1819,
    with the statehood of Maine assured, proceedings were begun for the
    formation of the Grand Lodge of Maine and on June 24, 1820, the
    Grand Lodge of Maine was formed, consisting of 24 subordinate
    lodges. Anti-Masonry hit Maine with great force. Almost all of the
    lodges stopped meeting, and some charters were surrendered. In 1837,
    only one lodge attended the GL Communication. In 1842, none
    attended. The Grand Lodge of Maine didn't meet for several years.
    From 1834 until 1843 no more than four lodges were represented at
    its meetings.
    A Concerted Effort
    In 1843, it was decided that anti-Masonry had run its course, and a
    concerted effort was made to revive Freemasonry. The results were
    favorable, and sixteen lodges attended Grand Lodge in 1844. Maine
    lost none of its lodges during this time. Every lodge that had
    ceased to meet, or had surrendered its charter, was revived.
    In 1830, there were 108 Masonic Lodges in Massachusetts. In 1840,
    the number had dropped to 56, and by 1850, it had risen to only 66.
    In 1860, there were 116 lodges, 8 more than thirty years before.
    Feelings against Masonry were strong in Massachusetts, but the anti-
    Masonic people were frustrated and enraged by the refusal of Masonry
    to give in to their attacks. An example of this was a public Masonic
    procession and cornerstone ceremony held in 1830, accompanied by a
    hooting mob.
    New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont also suffered hostilities.
    Indeed, for a time there was not a single lodge working in the
    entire State of Vermont, but by 1845, the Vermont Grand Lodge and
    seven subordinate lodges were working.
    The Southern States
    In the southern states, anti-Masonry had a lesser effect on
    Delaware, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia.
    Alabama, the District of Columbia, Georgia and Maryland were worse
    affected. Alabama was severely affected by the anti-Masonic
    movement. By 1829, about one-third of Alabama's lodges had
    surrendered their charters. There was no Grand Lodge meeting in
    1832, and in 1833, only six lodges were represented at the opening.
    The Grand Master was not in attendance. There were no Grand Lodge
    Communications in 1834, 1835 or 1836. In 1836 the six lodges
    represented decided to reorganize the Grand Lodge with the adoption
    of a new constitution and the election and installation of new Grand
    Officers.
    By 1860, there were 236 lodges in Alabama.
    The Grand Lodge of Georgia was not able to meet in 1833 or 1834. In
    Maryland, the number of lodges dropped to a low point of 13, and
    only one lodge is reputed to have worked regularly throughout the
    entire anti-Masonic era.
    In The West
    In the west, Michigan was severely affected. The Michigan Grand
    Lodge suspended work for eleven years and was eventually replaced by
    a new Grand Lodge.
    The number of Masons in Kentucky was cut in half between 1828 and
    1840, while the number of lodges dropped from 66 to 37. This decline
    in membership was primarily due to the anti-Masonic feelings of the
    time, but many in Kentucky feel that it was at least partly a result
    of financial problems within the Kentucky Grand Lodge. Anti-Masonic
    opposition began to decline by 1837, and in 1843, Kentucky Grand
    Master Henry Wingate stated that Kentucky Freemasonry was in better
    condition than before the Morgan Incident.
    Indiana, Missouri and New Jersey were similarly hit hard. In New
    Jersey in 1839 the the total attendance at Grand Lodge was 18
    Masons. In 1840, the Treasurer's report at Grand Lodge showed a
    balance of $3.54 and in 1842 there were but 8 surviving lodges. When
    the Grand Lodge of New Jersey celebrated its 100th anniversary in
    1887, there were 155 working lodges on the roll.
    The Lessons of History
    The period of anti-Masonic activity, which lasted from about 1826
    until about 1845, was a time when very little if any Masonic
    activity was being done in the lodges which managed to survive these
    difficult times.
    The older, more experienced brethren were passing away, and, due to
    the lack of Masonic activity, few were being prepared to take their
    places. This made the return to normal activity with a degree of
    uniformity in the ritual work of the various lodges more difficult.
    With the passing of time, this sad period in the history of
    Freemasonry has faded from our memories to the pages of our history
    books. However, from time to time, as has happened in recent years,
    the ugly specter of anti-Masonry raises its head. Masons can't
    ignore this.
    Hopefully, this recounting of past events will remind us of the
    possible consequences of indifference.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------

    Written by Bro. David P. Brownback, Providence Lodge No. 298
    Reprinted from Masonry Universal, the Masonic eZine, issue 16;
    edited by gordon@...
    Bibliography
    Beyond the Pillars, edited by The Special Committee on Publications,
    Grand Lodge A.F. & A.M. of Canada in the Province of Ontario,
    Masonic Holdings, 1973.
    The Builders, by Joseph Fort Newton, Supreme Council, 33rd Degree,
    AASR, Northern Masonic Jurisdiction, USA, 1973
    Encarta Multimedia Encyclopedia, Microsoft Corporation, 1994
    Facts, Fables and Fantasies of Freemasonry, by William Adrian Brown,
    Missouri Lodge of Research, 1968
    Freemasonry Through Six Centuries, Volume II, by Henry Wilson Coil,
    Macoy Publishing Company, 1968
    History of Freemasonry in New Jersey 1787-1987, by The History
    Committee of the Grand Lodge of New Jersey, RW Edward Y. Smith,
    Grand Historian, Chairman, 1986
    A History of the Grand Lodge of the Ancient and Honorable Society of
    Free and Accepted Masons for the State of New Jersey, edited by MW
    William Davies and MW Lewis M. Parker, 1961
    Kentucky Freemasonry, 1788-1978: The Grand Lodge and the Men Who
    Made It, by Charles Snow Guthrie, 1981
    Let There be Light, A Study in Anti-Masonry, by Alphonse Cerza, The
    Masonic Service Association, 1983
    Masonic Literary Harvest II, Missouri Lodge of Research, 1992
    The Morgan Affair and Anti-Masonry, by John C. Palmer, as reprinted
    in the Little Masonic Library, Volume II, The Masonic Service
    Association of the United States, 1924, 1946

    now read this version.....we should have a vote on what the truth is

    http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/party.html
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Dean Banned Banned

    Messages:
    27
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Dean Banned Banned

    Messages:
    27
    This is a very interesting article that I found in the Islamic News Group.

    The historic premise of the banking system did not take off until after the death of the prophets Moses & Solomon, thousands of years ago. That was in the form of the "Money Exchangers". These were your basic bankers, all of whom were the elite of the Jews, the Wise Men. Nevertheless, they were not the Fed Reserve of yesteryear. The governing body of the "money exchanging" was a secret society known as the Knights Templar.

    The Knights Templar members were less that 15, they were the 'elite of the elite'. Their knowledge of secret arts, enlightenment of the inner religious mysteries, granted them power over Jews & Arabs. On top of all that, they were the richest people on earth, their wealth made them a power to be reckoned with, even to the Pharaoh.

    Moses, on the other hand, persuaded the people to destroy them. Those are the same group referred to in the Muslim's Quran as the Shameri or Samiri, and in the Bible, he's the Shomer. They're also the ones who built the Calf when Moses went to the Mount to receive God's Book - the Ten Commandments. They're the ones who corrupted the half- faithed Jews and turned them against Moses. And, they're the ones who, until this day, want to acquire Moses' Arch, for it has Power.

    When Jesus was born, his mother Mary motioned to him when people asked how she'd had him without being married, the Knights Templar were scared. They planned to steal him, kill him, get rid of him, anything. But he grew up and gathered more support than Moses did, basically through his God-given miracles. Finally, they gave up on taming him after numerous visits to him as the Wise Men and Men in Black Robes, and persuaded the King to crucify him.

    Immediately after Jesus left the scene, they confiscated all books, scriptures and documents of what was to be the 'True' Bible. The little that was left in circulation was either hidden with Monks or was in the minds of the people Jesus taught. Knights Templar did not want to risk an atom worth of faith of people in a Godly figure, and since the Ten Commandments never showed up, they were able hundreds of years later to cover their tracks. You see, these are men who are very, very cautious. Through spying, power, influence and arcane occult knowledge, they knew all. They rarely made a mistake or had attention brought to them.

    * * * * *


    Almost all of God's prophets, apostles and messengers warned the people about a "deceiver or Dajjal", down to the last of the apostles Mohammad- who told the world that the "deceiver" would come out after his death.

    Between Moses and Jesus, Knight Templars' power accumulated, but still no more than about 15 members, in all. Their money was growing at astronomical rates, having acquired mounds of gold, silver, precious metals, and of course, through the economic breakthrough of "Usury". Because of the enormous knowledge that only they knew (basically databases of knowledge in toady's terms), they could influence people (or corrupt them if necessary) and acquire their resources. They also were the ones who financed Christopher Columbus in 1492, who was looking for new resources (gold, etc..) and found it in America later on. Throughout their existence, no one knew any of their names, and other than descriptions about their work, methods of evil planning, the Bible as well as the Quran never mentioned more. Meantime, people knew that every once in a while, a secret society would pop up from nowhere, the king, leader or Caliph would suppress them, then either the king would die or another society would pop up under a different name. Commonalty- same banking procedures, debt of people, disappearance of gold and other resources, and loss of control to something as slick an unseen as a Iblis (Lucifer).

    Hundreds of years after Jesus and after Mohammad's deaths, Knights Templar set up shop in Europe. But, for about 1,000 years after Mohammad's death, there was relative peace in the world. The Templars were silent, same as before- secretly financing covert operations, killing off or buying off leaders, springing up conflicts and financing terrorists.

    They started with the Muslims- financed influential minority groups with little or no Islam and lots of propaganda against honest Caliph's and Muslims at large. They financed the Assassins (Hashasheen) to cover their tracks, financed and started the Crusades (indirect reason was to look for the Arch), and most importantly, kept establishing secret society after another from Australia to China to the Middle East and of course, Europe. No wars or large scale conflicts took place until mid 1600, when the Civil War erupted in England (King vs. Mason Parliament). Mohammad died around 632AD.

    About 1,000 year of "relative" peace...


    * * * * *


    Hell broke loose thereafter. Wars, civil wars, coups, assassinations, devil worship, takeover of countries, anti-everything movements, and what have you (look up a history book).

    To make the long story short, starting in early 1700, they started wide scale marketing of Illuminism or the Enlightenment. Through art, history, music, religion, clubs and of course the Pope & various corrupt kings, they started to leak little about their occult power and initiated the building of circles upon circles of protective layers through establishing hundreds of secret societies, mainly in Europe. You won't believe the sheer numbers, societies like Cathari, Hospitallers, White Lotus, Rosicrucian Order, Alambrados, Freemasons, Tammany, Knights of Malta, Knights of Benficience, Order of the Brotherhood, Order of Odd Fellows, Order of New Templars, Germanen Order, Swindenborg Order, Masonic Order, and hundreds more.

    The perpetuation of these movement picked up in the 18th century in America. Americans in several states back then repudiated those societies, and almost immediately those societies disappeared, only to re-appear under different names, in different cities. Wisdom Lodge in Virginia, was followed by the Swedenborgian Order (later Church), followed by Lodge of Jupiter and National Freemasonry... all the way to the League of Nations (the parent of the United Nations).

    The Knights Templar and the whole banking business started with goldsmiths issuing receipts for gold they received from people who were penny pinchers. For long times, the goldsmiths remained honest, never looting anyone's Gold, as money was never their real goal, rather a means to obtain power, manipulate nations, control markets, sell weapons & start wars, exercise monopoly and corrupt souls. By doing so, they're able to obtain even more power, control, etc.. It's an endless CIRCLE, you don't know where it starts or ends...

    Still, their "secret of success", can be summed up as follows:

    - The few, the proud, the privileged- The Wealthiest
    - Never reveal Secrets
    - Knowledge of secret arts, mysteries and religions
    - Appearance of modesty, humanity, charity
    - Protective Circles within Circles

    basic deceiving methods..


    * * * * *


    The Middle East is a place of peace. Strange as it sounds, one feels a certain degree of spirituality when walking the markets and roaming the streets- despite every thing you hear. But it is also a place of struggle- Good vs. Evil. Everyone knows how the "deceiver" i.e. Dajjal (in Arabic) Anti-Christ (in English) fits into the scheme of things- Money is his language. They know money+power is behind it, yet no one can pinpoint a him (person, individual). They also resent intellectuals in the West who still think it's all about Arab vs. Jews, peace vs. war, economic prosperity against mass destruction. They've been deceived more than any other nation/race by the conner, they're not fooled by him any more. They know it's about submission (peace as we call it out here).

    It is that submission to Son of Light they all refuse to accept. By the start of this past century, the Circle owned (literally) more than half of the world's resources. Their database of knowledge had gotten much larger.

    And through archeology trips, Crusades, invasions, wars and occupation, they knew there was something out there. Once they found it (oil), they convinced tribe leaders in the Middle East (wealthy Sheiks)- to explore, dig, and extract oil on their behalf, gave them more money than they knew what to do with and started setting up shop in Arabia. The desert Arabs did not know a thing about the civilizations these people descended from, let alone financial formulas and economic indicators. So, the bankers took their money, deposited it in their banks (Rockefeller, Rothschild, Warburg, Schroder, Lazard, etc..), basically the 13 owners of today's Federal Reserve, Bank of England, Deutsche Reichsbank and other central bank franchises around the globe. The Arab money from that oil was more than the wealth of all these individuals, combined. That's a threat they can't allow to exist.

    Once Arab money went to their banks, they were in control to basically declare oil countries corrupt. After all who's going to listen to Arabs whose media images was already faked, portraying them as bad guys. What do you think the Stock Market crash of 1988 was all about? Or the S&L Bank scandals? A lot of people in this country lost all. But, where did the money go? When someone looses, another always wins, right!

    Major part of the money that was lost (mostly in the stock market crash) was the Arabs'- Chase Manhattan (Rockefeller's Bank) was the Arabs' investment banker. Chase did lose- Fed Reserve Won. But that was not important. The important thing is a lot of the Arab's money was lost, while bad fate was awaiting the other half...

    Go back to basics- Bible, Quran and read how this Dajjal/Anti-Christ is depicted- The deceiver, man with many clothes and faces, One Eyed (One Order- One Currency- One Son of Light). That is it's MANIFESTO.

    We get to the United States. This country as we all know, is the only country on the face of earth where people still have few more freedoms, privileges and some rights left. It is not in the Fed, Dajjal, Anti- Christ interest that people UNITE. Division always works- It worked between Arabs and Jews, didn't it? Anti-Christ is Anti-religion, for in religion nations are empowered. Money is power also, therefore, it must not stay in people's hands. Sane minds are dangerous, so corrupt people with drugs. Propagandas about abortion, taxes, blacks, homeless, violence, crimes, etc.. are thus necessary. But unlike other countries, there's a wide open press here (I won't call it free), thus, events must be timed very accurately and people orchestrated. That's where this Liar, the Dajjal system comes in.

    The U.S. inarguably is the leader of technology in the world today, much like the Chinese, Pharaoh, Arabs and others were. But technology without knowledge is like a pen without ink. And if you read between the lines, you can extract some knowledge. You should always listen to what the Feds/government/elite DOESN'T say.

    We all know that the U.S. Army, Coast Guard, CIA, FBI, DEA, DIA, Customs, Secret Service watch dope coming in this country like hawks. Yet, they tell us, it's only the tip of the iceberg. How come? All AWAKS planes and sophisticated radars don't work against the 'Cartel', right?. In a sense, they don't. Because the Cartel is the TOP of the ladder. One phone call will tell all those agencies to "stay off", we're watching this op.

    Why?

    You have to understand that dope trade today knocks many birds with one stone:
    - Far better returns on investment than any other trade
    (stocks, bonds, even gold & diamond)
    - Corrupts society
    - On going problem that comes up in news when needed, and
    - Justification for new money

    However, the real reason for currency change is not dope, tax cheaters or counterfeiters. The sole purpose is world control. As you know, the dollar is the only currency on this planet that all nations economies and currencies are based on. If the dollar falls on the Japanese market, it falls elsewhere. So far so good?

    Now, when two versions of the dollar are introduced (downplayed as they were at Greenspan's announcement), one for overseas the other for U.S., the U.S. can still stay on top (for as long as necessary), when the rest of the world collapses- that collapse, brothers & sisters, has already started, beginning with the deflation of the Middle East economy.

    When I say that the U.S. economy still stays on top, I'm not referring to your personal economy or mine, rather the Fed's position, control and power, which goes parallel with its Establishment. It was never meant to regulate banking, but rather gather power by taking it (the gold) out of our hands.

    Now that all gold's gone, notes are left around. The devaluation of the dollar is going to come this time around through an event (war, big scandal, loan default..) on a major scale. However, it is going to be much easier to accomplish this in the U.S. than anywhere else.

    How?

    You see, the global banking system (incl. the U.S.) revolves around a major issue: Borrowing, Lending, Loans, Usury (interest). I would not be exaggerating if I said that 80% of the population in the U.S. have houses, businesses, cars, schools, whole life on debt.

    Now, let's jump to Fractional Reserve. Created by the goldsmiths thousands of years ago, this economic formula states that, in essence, if you deposit X amount into your account, the economy gets 20 times that amount (X*20 ).

    In other words, the bank only keeps 5% and loans 95% out. At any one time, 95% is out hopping from bank to bank to Fed Reserve, and back. So, if you deposit $2,000 in your account (checking, savings, CDs, mutual funds, stock portfolio, whatever) the bank keeps 5% $(100) and loans $1,900. The recipient of the loan deposits/spends $1,900, bank keeps 5% ($95), loans $1,805, etc.. At the end of the day, the $2,000 has become $40,000 (excluding interest) all of the sudden-

    That's Virtual Money..

    To correct this inconsistency, the Feds creates the difference (40,000-2,000) $38,000 from a note signed by Greenspan to keep from inflation, deflation, deficit, etc.. But they don't really have to. Because fractional reserve works in reverse too. It only takes 5% of the loans to become bad (we're talking on international level-Fed, World bank, IMF) for the entire system to collapse.

    1995 and 1996 are preparations for this to happen. Look around, how many people do you know who are broke or unemployed, how many are in debt, afraid of loosing their home, car, or are barely surviving paycheck-to- paycheck? You're talking almost 70% of the population of earth.

    Like I said, banks don't keep money- they don't have to, they can always print it, but why not loan what you have, say, to third world countries. They did. Starting in 1970, World Bank, IMF, Morgan and other large banks, loaned huge amounts to 3rd world countries whom they knew can't pay back the loans- heck they can't even pay the interest. Now, no one has announced it yet, but at last count, the banks need a couple of more countries with huge debts (Russia, Iran, Philippines, Mexico) to default on their loans to declare a major banking disaster (and you'll know it when you hear it). That money was the other half of the Arab oil money, not the Feds.

    The banks have been buying each other out (since 1992) in massive mergers & acquisitions. Thus, the collapse of any of these banks, spells collapse of all.

    What's the point?

    The Fed Reserve is the orchestrator, right? He'll have to come up with a plan to "Save the World" from imminent starvation and danger of fast deflation after a crisis of that kind. So he buys all the banks along with their debts (your house, wife's car, credit cards, etc..).

    He (a Beast) now owns you!

    Is it any wonder they came so hard on the Freemen (Montana), who were trying to break out of their system? As long as you don't challenge the Feds in any way, shape, or form, you can debate politics, call Clinton names, talk about conspiracies, and the Fed won't care one way or the other. But, the minute you challenge their 'very being', you're dead!

    Simple Economics- because of all the debt Mr. Fed Reserve acquired, he's going to have to liquidate and/or collect. Since most of the country is in debt, he can't kick every one out on the street, so he'd settle for second best.

    Just as chief economists have come up with new "deceiving tactics" to wash money, launder it (i.e. invest it), they've also devised methods to devalue it. Remember what Einstein said, that everything is relative.

    Well, this is no different. Devaluation is going to be relative to the time and space we live in and the factors that control that time and space. In 1930's there were physical money (gold), we came off of it, we had physical depression. Today, there's virtual money, so there will be virtual depression. There's virtual reality for you- Real yet not, the U.S. is rich, yet almost broke.

    They would really have no alternative but to devalue the dollar and extend the loans to people and businesses. So now you owe $40,000 instead of the $2,000 you had on your Visa. And who're you going to complain to? And, complain about what, it is happening, isn't it? It happened overseas first, and you were warned.

    And in order to put order back into the chaos, the Arabs, third world countries, dope dealers, tax evaders and money counterfeiters have caused, a new system will have to be implanted. Well, guess what, it's already here. It's called e-Cash: Global 2000; Phoenix.

    "If you agree, rather than risk new counterfeit operation or new dope scams, we can institute an electronic cash system, thereby eliminating ALL dope trafficking, counterfeiting and what not, and you will only owe us $25,000, not $40,000". If that was the choice, and, really, you had to chose, you would chose the lesser of two evils, right? In fact, you' demand it, wouldn't you?

    Brother & sisters, this is how it's going to happen, and it will happen. Look around, isn't every thing almost in place for that? The new dollars can, through satellites, IR and laser scanners be electronically detected, why have it at all?

    The One Eye in space is watching everybody, the One Eye on earth is controlling everybody.

    True Believers- Muslims and Christians around the world see this all too clear. Those who worship their money (i.e. swagger about their $7,000 paycheck) can not.

    The Bible and Quran say so: "They Are Blinded".

    The One Eyed is the Dajjal, is the Anti-Christ, is the deceiver, the Liar- The Fed Reserve, the guy who's going to leave people with no clothes.. Simple economics and relative conjecture.

    Don't say this hasn't or will never happen. Yes it will. Their goal to bring it about MUST be achieved before 2000, for Lord Maitreya, the One Son of Light (Lucifer) will descend (somehow), to officially claim Godship (i.e. control of chaos) and also to inaugurate 13 Sons of Light as the Inheritors of Earth, George Bush is one of them.

    >From hundreds of books, speeches, dates, religion & history, evidence indicate this is to happen before 1998 ends, for 1999 is the year hell will break loose and the Temple Guardians will gather in Egypt to receive "Final Illumination"- What do you think the pampering of Egypt is all about?

    The Site..

    It all started in the Middle East,

    It all starts to end in the Middle East.

    Remember, all is relative. You won't hear about someone calling himself Lord, or claiming to be Allah, coming from the Kalium Galaxy. You won't see a One Eyed Beast roaming around the Earth talking to humans either.

    Rather something like: "The Chinese have aggressed against the United States and its interests and are threatening to take over the Asian Subcontinent.

    Or, Iraq has refused to become part of the peace process (submission) and we found that it has 5,000 nuclear warheads and missile launchers hidden in the mountains.

    Or, a new CIA study based on satellite photos over the last 4 years proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that 200-tons of Uranium are hidden in-and- around Tehran".

    The rest will just have to be based on the factors of human actions & reactions, but that is trivial. Isn't it?

    ....................................................
    (c) Copyright 1996 by Sam Farra. All rights reserved.





    Go To Replies

    Sympatico / MSN Groups Sponsored Links
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. john smith Tongue in cheek Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    833
    God almighty, you shud rite a book!
     
  8. Dean Banned Banned

    Messages:
    27
    This forum is editing out what I have to say

    what ever happened to freedom of speech
     
  9. Dean Banned Banned

    Messages:
    27
    I will try to post this again

    The hero Abraham Lincoln was a member of wig party which was the antimasonic party. The south admired slavery socialism and the bankers tried to bankrupt the north. Abraham knew he could print his own money and save the day. Then Abraham was assasinated and the freemasons climbed back into power. Freemason own your national security and presidency. I bleieve we can break the backs of the freemason and restore the U.S.A by reviving the antimason party name and all. Imagine the wake up call ethnic people would realize the freemason connection to the KKK. There would no longer be protection for the drug dealers who are backed by freemason. Even the Italian Mafia was started by freemason. Drugs keep everyone subdued and the addiction will have them worshipping the provider. I have shown you the corruption but not how they recruit and not how the system interlinks. We here about the Bilderbergs and the power players but never look at the system hidden at the local town level where their is a masonic temple in every small town. Manipulating politics and deciding who gets rich who goes broke. In my own town my father fought the freemasons and has lost his land to them. He lost his farm in 1981 around the time of a small depression caused by the rothschilds. The freemasons then cleaned up because they were allowed unlimited loans at lower interest. My father worked hard building road and the standard set to him were not the same to other companies and he found he had to work twice as hard to compete. My father now knows what I am telling you now and he is angry. He is only one citizen played this way and the proof is simple. Find out who bought my fathers land and is he freemason. Wallmart moved into my uncles terratory and put him out of business selling hardware. Slowly he dropped from well to do to unemployed. Wallmart is a known freemason company and most of the people dealing with wallmart were screwed over as manufacturing went oversees to slave labour camps. Wallmart has its own home homeland security office. Tim Hortons in Canada is the same thing owned by freemason and no longer hire cooks to make the doughnuts instead a manufacturing company delivers them half frozen then they are simply thawed out.

    My point is this these Companies have pushed out the regular people by use of banks, other businesses, churches, suppliers. When they started stalking me they used Bell expressview. I could never get service to fix the problems I had with the satelite and it had gotten to rediculous perportions till I phoned the crtc who licenses the company to look at what i was going through there solution was that Bell expressview could not bill me for bad service. I tracked cabletronics to a south africa. Cabletronics was the contractor who serviced in my area. The Bell company is owned by freemason and if any high member says they will haunt you it is all freemason who will haunt you. Bell of course owns Bell sympatic of which is part of the microsoft network. I believe Bill Gates is freemason and if you watch the movie pirates of silicone valley pirated everything. Bill Gates was in partnership with I.B.M which is also freemason owned comany. I have seen pictures of Bill Gates wife at the Bilderberg meettings. I constantly face erasure of important information on my computer as well as out right sabotage.

    The south has risen again slave ideology in tow and the only ones in the way are people who still believe they are free. If you have money and you squander on arguing these minor details you will sink us all. Set up the antimason party and tell the truth to the people and they will realize your genuine. My self My father and uncle once he realizes how he lost his business will back this bold move....
     
  10. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    The Germans under Hitler like the French under Napoleon under estimated the Russians its as simple as that . The Germans prepared for a large conflict in Europe by rearmament , took into account obstacles as they arose such as Britain and France and successfully dealt with them . And finally prosecuted a long desired war for control of Russia which was where their plan came apart .
    It makes no difference Germany like America , Britain and France was a technologically advanced industrialized society . Only such nations can prosecute wars fully and on a wide scale because the industrial infrastructure can cope with military demand . As the war developed and progressed these nations could easily develop weapons which if they were not suitable could be replaced by an updated version .
    Of course it was an enormous expense to the German economy , the fact was that the end goal for Germany was the control of Mittle Europa as virtually a closed German market . And the complete economic colonization of Russia would have been the lucrative pay off foe the German market .
    The military directive was the order authorizing the invasion of Russia after all the military plans had been developed and approved . And you say so what ! Come on you wont even fully answer this
    You just don’t want to make that connection . The Molotov meeting was just a charade , This was the bone of contention at the meeting , explain why Germany occupied Romania with troops and built them up on Russia’s border . The plain fact is Russia knew she was going to be invaded and began taking active steps to prepare for it . It was a foregone conclusion your theory of an aimless , haphazard German policy of meandering in and out of rash military adventures does not stack up .
     
  11. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    The Germans had radar , just not on the scale of the Anglo/American system .As the Anglo/American fought a massive large scale airwar against Germany they needed it . Germany had no requirement for a sophisticated tracking system only a directional warning system .
     
  12. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    This plan was devised in 1935 , I dont see what bearing this has on the future European conflict .
     
  13. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    Interesting thing about free speach. Those that demand it the most tend to be the ones that deserve it the least, don't you think?
     
  14. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    Once again, for the record; it is your contention that the Germans, at great expense to their economy, feverishly began re-arming in 1933 without once bothering over the course of the next 6 years to even study the operational requirements stemming from an invasion of the Soviet Union?

    We’ve dealt with this at length. The Germans (specifically Hitler) began toying with an invasion of Russia in the summer of 1940. By December 1940, after his stormy hissy-fit with Molotov, he decided to go ahead with it. Once again (and fatally this time), Hitler had made a decision on the basis of the fact that he was a violently inclined suck.

    Please let me advise what a “charade” looks like in the world of diplomacy. In one word; harmony. If you’re intending to attack someone, you pretend that everything is A.OK. With sugar on it. For Hitler, he’d have said, “sure, go ahead with invading Finland and Turkey” (as per Molotov’s agenda), and then backstabbed Stalin with a full-out invasion as the Soviet dictator committed himself to the advice.


    We agree on something. I’ll get the champagne. :^)
     
  15. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    Because the German plan consisted of a short war , that was the fatal mistake , miscalculation .
    There isn’t much to study into operational requirements , the German economy was like any other advanced industrialized economy , they have the ability to wage war regardless . When you have a sophisticated industrial infrastructure base on the scale of the German Ruhr supplying your military is solved ie: making good your losses . Where the German war machine toppled over is they under estimated the Soviet Unions Industrial base and the fact that the Soviet Union was able to launch an offensive outside Moscow in Dec 1941 . Its as simple as that , Napoleon made the same mistake with Grand army .

    There was no toying involved , a firm decision to invade was made on Aug 1 by authorizing the planning of Barbarossa some 4 months before the Molotov meeting .
    If you want to see what a charade is read The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich , Chap 23; Barbarosa: The turn of Russia; MOLOTOV IN BERLIN pages 800 through to 812 . Finland and Romania was the reason for this fall out , read the chapter very illuminating . I would like you to answer me though on this query :
    Which country was to be the object of this advanced staging point ?
    Just an icecold beer , thanks ,

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    you would make an interesting drink partner

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .
     
  16. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    The duration of a conflict is irrelevant – wars need to be planned. Well, at least you’re admitting that Germany’s haphazard planning starting only in 1940 was fatally incompetent. To answer my question, “Is it your contention that Hitler re-armed feverishly, at great cost to the German economy without once bothering to check the requirements stemming from an invasion of the USSR?” Your answer is “yes”.

    Isn’t “much” to study in invading the Soviet Union??? The country was huge. The infrastructure was very poor. The location and scale of economy and industry unknown, the size of the armed forces unknown, the relative importance of resources unknown, and the overall direction of attack unknown. There was no country in Europe which required more detailed operational planning than the Soviet Union, and the failures you outline are a failure in intelligence and planning – both critical facets of operational planning.

    .

    We’ve been around the block enough on this one so that anyone still interested in the repetition understands the differing opinions. Planning an invasion does not automatically equate with launching one, and that decision was taken after the blowout with Molotov.

    No, Finland and Rumania weren’t the only reasons for the fallout. Off the top of my head:

    1) Molotov was completely uninterested in Hitler’s suggestion of an advance towards Persia.
    2) The Russians were upset over troop movements to Finland and Rumania
    3) The Russians didn’t like Hitler’s deal between Hungary and Rumania
    4) Hitler was incensed over Stalin’s claim to a free hand in Finland, to bases in Turkey, to demands for influence in Bulgaria, for military bases in Denmark, and demands of German support to extort territory from Japan (territory with oil).

    This was no charade, it’s a first-class textbook diplomatic showdown. Molotov was trying to extort Hitler; he stopped him at one point and reinforced Stalin’s agreement that the United States must have no say in European affairs. This was the “carrot”. Unfortunately for Stalin, Hitler was too stupid and violent to understand the military situation

    Are we still unclear of the meaning to the term “oppose”? I’m wondering – is English a second language?

    That Hitler recognized Poland as an area from which Russia could be attacked is unremarkable. He could not have failed to do so as early as 1919. There is evidence of preparations for routine contingencies, including attacking Russia, defending against a Russian attack, or holding an army in perpetual garrison. So what?
     
  17. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    What do you mean haphazard ? What are you talking about ! Germany went through a 6 year rearmament programme to prepare for a war for petes sake . Then Germany started by invading Poland as a springboard and dealing with her principal adversaries Britain and France to secure her position .And in Aug 1940 began finally drawing up battle plans for the invasion of Russia a full 10 months before Barbarossa .How the hell does that lead you to assume Germanys plan was done on the fly I have no idea ! Germany believed the war against Russia would be over by mid 1942 that was the German time table . After 1942 the US entered the war and it dragged on for another 3 and ½ years ! Hardly a case for German unpreparedness !
    90% of Russia population was centered in the European part of Russia the rest was empty Siberia . Invasion plans simply consist objectives , the German plan was divided into 3 Army Groups North , South and Centre it’s a simple matter of advance and occupy
    Rubbish the location of Soviet industrial centres was well known the heavy industry Donetsk region of the Ukraine , the oil fields of the Baku region . The scale of Soviet industry was well known due to the publishing of the results of the The Five-Year Plans .
    The size of the Soviet military was well known in fact the Soviet airforce was the worlds largest , you only have to go into Janes archives for such information . anyway if it was so secretive why was Russia releasing news footage of its paratroops to be viewed in the West’s cinemas in the 1930’s or how do you explain the knowledge of the great purges !
    Please explain the relative importance of resources unknown means to you . The mainthrust of the German Barbaroosa advance was the Industrialized Ukraine and the resource rich Caucasus .
    The Germans covered it very well , almost pulling it off , the Geermans advanced well into Southern Russia and it was only in Feburary 1943 that the Germans went on retreat . Show me where there was a failure in German planning and intelligence .
    “ There was no toying involved , a firm decision to invade was made on Aug 1 by authorizing the planning of Barbarossa some 4 months before the Molotov meeting ”
    .
    You just don’t want to concede that planning began in Aug 1940 , because it throws out your timeline . Once the plans had been drawn up Hitler authored his Hitler's directive 21on December 18th, 1940 and that was released when General Marcs had completed authoring the battles plans . Read it the directive clearly outlines German objectives in the industrial and mining zones of Russia .
    Go to the end of this transcript
    HITLER AND MOLOTOV MEETINGS
    And read the section
    and read such charades as
    .
    No you are just being ignorant , I asked very clearly in relation to this excerpt , as to which country Hitler was concerning .
    Was Hitler meaning a future invasion of Russia .
     
  18. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    Interesting debate, but we're getting repetative. I'm only going to address fresh issues...

    Who won the war? Had Hitler done his homework, he'd have won. But he didn't, was an idiot, and lost.

    The Russian OOB was well known? You are aware that Operation Typhoon was crushed by a massive Soviet counterattack at the gates of Moscow? And that the Germans had little clue that the Russians had these reserves to throw into the fray, because they were ignorant as to the Red Army OOB?

    It was the inability of the German High Command to establish the relative importance of taking Moscow vs. a southern drive for the resources that caused much of the chaos in German operations. In fall 1941, they decided to go for Moscow, and it cost them the war.

    "Almost pulled it off?" Yes, that counts.

    German planning failed because their schedule of advance was science fiction. They were so stupid as to believe they could take Russia in one season. German intelligence failed because they completely missed the buildup of the Russian strategic reserve at Moscow, which subsequently brutalized Army Group Center and came within an ace of breaking the back of the German army.

    Those are two. Two more operational failures would be the decision to alienate the conquered peoples of the occupied territories, and the failure to mobilize the German economy for war before it was too late. These are all symptoms of stupid German decisions based on stupid German planning and intelligence.

    I told you that planning for the invasion of Russia began in the summer of 1940.
     
  19. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    The Germans did do their homework , 6 years of rearmament and the militarization of German society is testament to this .
    That is where the Soviets decided to launch an offensive , what did you expect ? That the Russians would just retreat until annihilation ! its a war of attack and counter attack . Zhukovs Dec offensive pushed the Germans back 200km and the frontline stabilized around Orel for the rest of the winter that was the objective of the offensive securing Moscow . In spring 1942 the German advance continued again all the way to Stalingrad the next point where the Soviets decided to act .
    The German offensive proceeded for another 12 months until the Battle of Stalingrad . these reversals , major as they were , were not the coup de grace that came at Kursk in mid 1943 . In fact all these revesals accomplished was to give stalin confidence to meet Hitler on equal terms that in 1943
    Stalin sent Peace Feelers to Hitler . This proves that the Germany military was a force to still be reckoned with in Soviet eyes .
    How was it science fiction when masses of Soviet troops were bagged up in early offensives such as Kharkov , and collosal material losses like the Ukraine ? The German plan evisaged a June 1941 attack that would terminate in Aug 1942 that is a level haeded assessment based on sound military experience .Dont tell me German reconnaissance and intelligence were completely unaware of 100 Soviet divisions amassing in and around Moscow . The Germans would of believed these were going to defend the city , not launch an offensive , a miscalculation , it happens .
    What broke Germanys back was the combination of the US Air war and Russian war front . The German war economy was fully mobilized under Albert Speer in 1943 , it was out produced by the US and Russian industry . Its as simple as that , and as I said it was Germanys gamble which they lost through miscalculation not ineptitude as you assert .
     
  20. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    What I would expect is irrelevant. It's the fact that the Germans should have expected it (but didn't) that's important.

    The turning point of the war was the crisis faced by Army Group Center in front of Moscow from December 1941. Because of the stupendous German losses there, coupled with the stupid strategic choices of the Nazi High Command prior to the reversal, the Germans were never again able to resume a general offensive on the Eastern Front. Operation Blue, the German offensive of 1942, was all that could be mustered - a push on one front. In contrast to the German ability to organize one, and only one, offensive, the Russians responded with three major pushes in 1942. These were Mars in the north, Uranus in the south, and an offensive at Kharkov in the spring. Of the four offensives only one, Uranus, succeeded.

    Because, having little intelligence or understanding of the Soviet Union, the Germans failed to comprehend that they could win big battles against the Red Army and still lose the war. They literally didn't have a clue. You are aware, for instance, that Hitler was on record as stating as early as July 1941 that had he known how powerful Russia war, he'd have never invaded? And that, at around the same time, he CUT armaments production? An example of the unbelievably stupid decisions taken because no one had done their homework on the Soviet Union...

    A: The Germans were caught "completely unawares" by the Soviet counterattack. Their intelligence assessment of the Red Army was incompetent,

    "In the course of the massive twin battles of Briansk-Vyazma, Army Group Center was able to encircle and capture almost eight Soviet armies. Hitler was already busy working out the details of the planned destruction of the Soviet capital."

    Briansk-Vyazma deluded the German High Command - they'd completely missed the fact that the Soviet strategic reserves were still unblown. They thought the forces destroyed in October were the last Soviet reserves, despite the fact that many of the units used in the December counterattack had been in the Red Army OOB for years,

    "At a conference chaired by the Chief of the General Staff, Halder, on 13 November 1941 at Orsha near Smolensk, the differences of opinion of the German staffs concerning the continuation of the operation became apparent. Given the exhausted condition of their units, the field commanders were opposed to further attacks. On the other hand, Hitler and OKH decided to resume the offensive and, by making a supreme effort, risk an attempt to conquer Moscow. This 'final effort of willpower' was regarded as decisive in the effort to vanquish the already teetering Red Army. The Germans staked their all on one throw."

    It was Hitler's stupidity, by insisting on a continued advance, that caused the near-disaster in the winter of 1941-42. He made the error for two reasons. First, he was compulsive (almost dementedly so) gambler, and second, German intelligence was incompetent and failed to detect the scale and nature of the Russian buildup - nine armies of the strategic reserve.


    1943 was far, far too late to matter.

    The summary is as follows: Because Hitler was "winging it" in his foreign policy, the German military was woefully unprepared when called upon in 1940 to commence studies and a military buildup aimed at dealing with the Soviet Union. This lack of attention to detail caused the failure in intelligence as to the strength of the Soviet Union which caused Hitler to lose the war. The failure of German strategy which stemmed from poor intelligence caused them to make the following, fatal, errors:

    1) They failed to militarize their economy starting in 1940. This, in turn, subjected their forces undertaking Barbarossa to a lack of reserves, and to be unable to replace equipment losses when unexpected reversals occurred. In addition, Germany couldn't arm her satellite armies (Hungary, Finland, Rumania) properly or adequately, meaning that when these formations were committed to battle, they were laid to waste by superior Russian material.

    2) They failed to undertake the proper political policies in conquered lands. Germany could have raised millions of troops and workers in the Baltic States and the Ukraine, but failed to do so until it was too late.

    3) They failed to understand the necessity of a multi-year campaign, and instead committed to a high-stakes gamble to take Moscow in year one. This lead to a disaster of supply (where troops didn't even have winter clothing!), and a near-fatal military disaster in front of Moscow.

    4) They failed to flesh out a working doctrine for how to invade the Soviet Union. Rather, the High Command fell into several different camps that schemed and competed for resources, hindering the overall war effort. These competing viewpoints stressed either the south or Moscow as the ultimate goal, and the failure to definitely pick one or the other caused dissention and confusion of the overall effort.
     
  21. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624


    I dont think so the Germans had just expended an offensive which when ended 2 days later the Russians launched theirs .
    So how does this oversight prove incompetence , you seem to forget that prior to Moscow Germany had
    With these disasters I believe the Germans had every right to under estimate Russian willpower .
    Again this is just banter of Generals at work ,hardly an indictment of confusion and desparation .
    No 1943 was the pivotal year which would make or break Germany Early 1943 and Late 1943


    This is the Russian veiw of which was the turning point .
     
  22. Red Devil Born Again Athiest Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,996
    I wonder where you got this information from, a socialist teacher mayhaps? Germany wanted liebensraum, living space. Many of the Polish population where of Germanic origin and Hitler used an SS attack on a German speaking Radio station, dressed in Polish uniforms, as an excuse to attack Poland. Heydrich himself commanded the raid. The British had a defensive pact with Poland and, as this was transgressed, the Britsh declared war on Germany. It was not unexpected as the Polish Intelligence, which had the engima code machine, warned any Western Government willing to listen that Germany was planning a move against them. Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister, and his Government, were hurriedly rearming as fast as they could, having let it slip during inter war years.

    Following on from WW1, Germany was being economically raped by the big jewish banks such as Rothchilds, in war reparation. This really got to Hitler and he became a Jewish "hater"; he had not been once. The rest on that side is, as they say, History. Having already taken back the demilitarised west bank of the Rhine; he then annexed the Sudetenland etc and still the rest of Europe did nothing. This gave him the confidence to move east. Hitler himself told Doenitz that there would not be a war against England, a country he feared, before 1944. His advisers did not obviously tell him of the Pact with Poland. Hitler detested Communism but made a Treaty with Molotov to appease the Soviets into a false sense of security. Operation Barbarossa put an end to that in 41. Thats a small potted version of why WW2 happened.
     
  23. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    The Germans were too weak to attack towards Moscow in 1942 because of their defeat of the previous year. This lead them to the south, to a strategy that could not succeed.

    To repeat, there were 4 major offensives in 1942. Three of them were Russian, only one was German; that attack was not able, even under the most favorable theoretical circumstances, to deliver a fatal blow. This is in contrast to the 1941 campaign, hence why the turning point to the war was in December 1941. The Germans no longer stand a reasonable chance of defeating the Russians, and the Americans have entered the game.

    The Germans were strung out, exhausted, without air support, and far beyond their supply dumps. They walked right into an ambush and almost lost the war on the spot because of it. Had Stalin not meddled with Zhukov's original plan and dispersed the effort over a wider front, it's more than likely Zhukov would have succeeded.

    A: The December counterattack used numerous Siberian armies that had been in existence for years and years beforehand, and therefore should have long been identified by the Germans ("should have", that is, if their invasion was as "carefully prepared" as you suggest). For all of their victories, any competent and attentive foe would duly note that many known and elite Soviet formations were not amongst the destroyed units. Given that there was only one railroad from Siberia west to watch (which was teeming with military traffic), it is yet another example of the inadequate preparations which defined the German invasion of Russia
     

Share This Page