Why did WWII happen ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Brian Foley, May 6, 2004.

  1. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    It was all fresh , you just deliberately ignored it , I mean you made this claim .
    And here are two of my points .
    Fuck the Battle Of Moscow , Jesus your whole on the fly theory is based on this .
    And what documentary evidence did you put forward for this claim .
    Im sorry when did Britain finish paying off lend-lease ? And as for Britains
    ineffective air campaign against Germany ? And as for twice when Britain intervened
    on the continent Greece and Dieppe and were thoroughly drubbed off it ? And as for
    the U-Boat campaign which almost starved Britain to death , save for the US lifeline
    .
    Again YOU asked me to show one document from Germany in the 1930's concerning the
    military action against Russia I did , and if you want more I can show you . And what
    did you do ? You upped the ante and demanded I provide a document outlining an
    invasion of Barbarossa as was existed in 1941 , Fucking ridiculous . And speaking of
    official Nazi documents , I haven't seen one from you bolstering your claims . YOU asked this
    I provided .
    And you dismissed it .
    How many Fucking times do I have go over this ? In order to author invasion plans you
    must first be in a position to launch an invasion from , whence why Poland was a
    springboard. You speak of this as the Germans had ESP or the ability to accurately
    predict the future .. Its like Operation Sealion , once Germany was in place to
    actually invade England plans were developed .
    Yeah I know that’s where you sit on this “provide a military plan for Barbarossa from the 1930s” . Whilst ignoring the Rearmaments programme and encroachment on Russia’s borders . Your just being a dick about it .
    YOU were the one who introduced this claim , I asked for proof , again you couldn't
    do it , so you had to climb down .
    YOU were the one who brought this into the debate , not me ! YOU consistently argued
    the invasion was not only poorly planned by the Germans militarily , military
    intelligence was lacking to non-existent , poorly planned industrial expansion to
    cope with arms procurement etc. I provided the links and sources which clearly
    contradict your claims , you ignored them , yet it is YOU who goes back to it in this
    ridiculous on the fly theory .
    All you have presented are hand typed quotes from history books .
    I have presented sourced arguments against your speculation , you are the one who
    consistently wont accept reasonable lines of debate . You fucked around on Moscow for
    God knows how long ! How long did you argue over and over the Nazi Soviet meetings .

    Fuck mate , I have introduced historic economic data from German and Russian sources
    , official Nazi archived documents , military sources , industrial data , 2
    electronic WW2 history books , historical commentary sites , military/civilian
    intelligence data in our debate . Your whole debate was simply of hand typed quotes from books , knock yourself out .
     
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  3. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Hold it mate , it was glenn who requested military plans from the 1930's as this is what he believed would of been necessary to make my theory believable . I dont see how it is suspicious whether these plans were devised in 1935 or 1940 . I have stated from literally day one that this war was progressive in phases . Thats it ! The German military in 1935 was in no way powerful enough to wage any war let alone 36 or 37 . Thats reality , the military can only plan with what is at hand .

    First Germany had to rearm and rebuild its military and militarize its economy.

    Second Germany had to position herself geograghically in a position to invade Russia . Germany did not share a border with Russia this was accomplished namely by invading Poland and through diplomacy with Romania and Finland .

    Third securing Germanys western border by dealing with the Anglo/Franco alliance .

    And when these objectives were complete then came the planning for the invasion of Russia . Which took one whole year of meticulous planning . Just like Operation sealion , the invasion of Britain could only be planned once Germany was in a situation geograghically to do so .
     
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  5. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    So your belief is that the Germans carefully and deviously planned the invasion of Russia, virtually from the inception of Hitler's rule, but had to have "ESP" to predict that they would invade Russia? Your serious?


    "History books" count, Brian, and no argument or debate that excludes them can possibly be taken seriously.

    Anyways...

    This is going downhill pretty fast now. While it's been fun, the threads now developing a wife-beating sort of feel to it, so I'm stepping out. Thanks guys!
     
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  7. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    4,089
    As for "Operation Sealion" being cancelled, it is hard to know now why it was. It seems to have been a combination of Hitler changing his mind. As well as the lack of suitable weather and tidal conditions for an invasion, not to mention the apparent strength of the RAF. (It was close to being beaten, but the Germans couldnt tell that). Not to mention that the German NAvy was not really in favour, and the transport methods were primitive.

    If Germany had invaded straight after Dunkirk, they could probably have taken Britain. However to have done that would have taken several months of planning beforehand on a subject that was actually qutie new to warfare- amphibious landings. It took the allies several years to learn how to do it properly, and they learnt from Operation Torch. By comparison the Germans were starting from a position similar to Britain in 1939.

    A wee example of where Hitler could go wrong- He had the equivalent of 10 divisions of well trained and equipped German troops holed up in harbours and suchlike during the invasion of France etc,yet they were never used, since they were garrison troops, and ultimately were a complete waste of manpower.
     
  8. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    Now your being deliberately Fucking stupid . how would the Germans know in 1935 what the geo-political situation would be ? In 1938 it was believed some sort of arrangement with Poland , other than military invasion was possible , such as an agreement with Romania , yet Germany had to invade . According to your ridiculous logic the Germans in 1935 would of accurately devised a plan to invade Russia accurately predicting the outcome and taking into account an invasion of Poland , Norway , The Low Countries , France , Britain .
    No You made this claim .
    I went to great lengths to justify my theory .I provided fully documented sources , which were in essence the death of your argument . That’s why you cannot answer and are ending the debate .
    Electronic History books like which I posted count , they were complete reproductions with index’s allowing for further study and discernment for your benefit . Your selective hand typed quotes disallowed me from making further study of what the author was writing in full text . The only way this could be accomplished was by obtaining the book itself .
    Game Over thanks for playing.
     
  9. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,624
    Both Britain and Germany possessed sophisticated intelligence networks , Bletchly Park had cracked the enigma code , Germany likewise cracked British codes . Aerial reconnaissance from both nations were adequate , Britain would of known of any massing of German amphibious/airborne forces .
    But Germany did not invade , Germany did not capture Dunkirque bagging up 330,000 British soldiers . Once the Battle Of Britain was fought in September 1940 , Germanys attention turned to massing troops on Russias border . To me the only logic available was that Britain , once it had been neutralized was no longer a German target .
    As was admitted by the British , that after the Dunkirque debacle if the Germans had of landed a airborne division on British soil it would have been un-opposed .
    That is the fate of War , historical hindsight exposes this , but at the time what was the rationale ?
     

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