Why did Jesus condemn you?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Why did Jesus condemn you?

    Christian dogma and traditions say that we are all condemned. Some say because of Original Sin, a non-Jewish concept that I think we can ignore as scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own sins. Jesus also indicates that this is so as he tells us to pick up our crosses and follow him. Our cross means our sins. Anything else would be immoral so we can know that we are judged only by our own sins.

    I was a large sinner as compared to most. I am still a sinner but I suffered becoming brethren to Jesus and recognize that I was never condemned. The only thing I needed saving from was ignorance of reality. I followed these quotes/instructions.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    As to thinking that Jesus died for you, even though you are not condemned and never were, Jesus would never give you a debt to do unto him what you think he did for you, to die. Jesus came to give life in abundance. Not death. You are conditioned not to believe this of course as you believe in the immoral sacrifice doctrine. There is never any justice in punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

    You presently think yourself condemned.

    What was your sin and what makes you think that Jesus would die for you and lay a false and immoral sense of indebtedness to him on you, --- instead of just forgiving you?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He didn't. A read of the Bible might reveal your error.
     
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  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm going to keep that to myself until the statute of limitations runs out.

    If he was just going to forgive us, he might as well have stayed home.
     
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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for a useless suggestion and copping out with chastisement without correction This just shows the hate in your heart.

    You might want to wonder why you hate so much.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and that way Christianity would not have needed to invent such a foolish and immoral dogma.

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Why are you constantly attacking christianity ? What have we done to you ? Jesus preached love thy neighbor , You definitely have not read His teaching , constantly you are looking on how to criticize , us
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    He may not understand the theology completely, but don't even start on what Christianity has done to deserve being attacked. Jesus also endorsed all the ancient Jewish laws, the influence of which we see today, for instance in the oppression of gays.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not the one who posts their hatred of Christianity in bulk.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I am curious... GIA - can you cite any passages in which Jesus condemns "us" (as a whole) for our sins?
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Every religious institution persecuted the heretics , Even Jews at the beginning persecuted the Nazarenes ( Christians ) . In respect to Gays . Jesus said " I did not come to condemn , but to save everyone that have been lost
    Paraphrase the good Shepherd
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I know. Taken as a whole, the message is incoherent, since Jesus also said he did not come to overthrow the law, but to fulfil it. So it's possible to find justification for almost anything. God even killed almost all life on Earth, and we are supposed to think he's good. The KKK is also an ostensibly Christian organization.
     
  15. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus did preach that. Is Jesus also your neighbor. He should be.

    That leads into why I criticise Christian morality.

    Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

    You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

    Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

    Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?
    In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

    Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?
    For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

    Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

    Do you agree?

    If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

    Doing unto others and loving your neighbor means paying your own dues.

    Regards
    DL
     
  16. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I always tell them why and try to correct them so bite me.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I can quite Jesus saying " be aware of the wolfs who cover themselves with a sheep skin, and so there are many religious organizations hide themselves under the umbrella Christian , Islam, Hindi and other.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Which, when you get to the heart of it, is the fundamental point of all your posts.
     

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