Why did God say: Let us give Satan to mankind?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I would say that another absolute in nature is that it inadvertently seeks to create life.

    From all non-intelligent life's POV, this is good.

    A few with intelligence might not think life so great, but if they are still here, it would seem that life is not that bad.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    You took off on a tangent on that last so I will ignore it. I see what you put as nonsense to what I put.

    "in order for something to be good or bad there must be some morality attached to it,"

    Let's see if that is true.

    It's 40 below and you jump into your car. It starts.

    Is that not good?
    Yes it is and morals are not involved.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Nature

    DOES NOT - CAN NOT - NEVER HAS - NEVER WILL

    seek to create life

    inadvertently or deliberately or accidentally or..... any ways or means which implies nature has awareness

    It is not good / bad or anything on the value spectrum

    Perhaps their intelligence makes them aware life might improve for them ie hope

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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Seems you do not like your part in nature and life. Oh well.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    It's physics in action

    No implicit value

    Correct no morals involved

    Incorrect assignment of a value judgement

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  9. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    So you do not care if your car starts or not. Ok.

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I am here that's enough

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    Oh you mean can I put a value judgement on my existence?

    Yes I would put it as very enjoyable

    And in about 30 I hope it will be a lot more so as I am going to Bali on holiday

    There is a difference between something which has

    no awareness

    it cannot make value judgements

    Value judgements should not be assigned to happenings which gives the impression the judgements originated from something which has no awareness

    Awareness however gives me the ability to assess something may be of a certain value TO ME and to quantify it

    So you do not care if your car starts or not. Ok.


    May be I care may be not

    Immaterial

    I don't control physics to the degree of changing outcomes

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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I know that the unaware cannot make value judgements.

    You are aware and you are the one being questioned.

    As to your last, seems I can do something you cannot. I can control some outcomes.

    If you are only looking at the car scenario, you might be right, but if you look at all reality, you are not.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

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    709
    it is not tangential, it is directly relevant as well as applying your own argument to a natural act
    you assumed that because a natural act took place then it was "good or bad"

    it isn't
    it is simply a natural act. the lion is attempting to eat and the goat is attempting to live
    nature
    period


    and again, this is nonsensical for the exact same reasons as the lion/goat problem that i elucidated for you above

    if my car didn't start, then what was the reason? was it due to ignorance on my part? or failure to maintain my vehicle? was it due to some natural act?

    if it's due to a problem of my own devising due to negligence or maintenance, then you can apply "good or bad" to my actions, but not to the car starting, simply because the car's starting is directly due to my own actions or inaction

    if you remove my actions from the equation: the car does or does not start at 40 below is still not able to be classed as good or bad simply because it is not a natural thing to do (starting) at 40 below unless that engine is specifically designed to run at that temp, start at that temp and it's maintained per the best standard to function at that temp

    ...

    perhaps you should look up this word:
    Anthropomorphism
    [emphasis mine to direct you to the problem with your argument]
     
  13. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    We are not discussing the reasons for starting or not.

    We are discussing if you think it good or bad that it did not start.

    Regards
    DL
     
  14. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    May be I would like the car to start because I was on my way to my wedding

    but may be I could not care less if the car started because I was on my way to a gathering I really didn't want to attend

    and a broken down car gives me the perfect excuse not to go

    If the car has a burnt out starter motor I doubt your considerable abilities would affect the outcome re not starting despite your self given title

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  15. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    When things go to the personal ------

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    Regards
    DL
     
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  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Aside from religion, if you look at how life forms and operates, and if every lifeform's thoughts and actions, hidden and open represent a microcosm of god at work, you can surmise that if a god existed as an organism or thought process, it is evil. besides, being evil, also liar, imposter/actor, thief plus including all seven deadly sins as an attribute but especially a power hungry monster.

    I always had a suspicion that if there was a god, it was more evil than good than religion would have anyone believe. so evil, in fact, a polar opposite.

    i liken god to a mob boss with reputable storefront businesses. if you search for truth, going lower into it's foundations is more closer to the truth and it's very dirty, sinister, even shameful and shameless how inferior/ evil nature is and you know when you realize what always has the real default power here and behind the curtain. just imagine you are inside of an evil being's body/god and 'good' as being occcasionally becoming trapped or filtering into here but ultimately and in truth, it's the evil that runs the show, manages what what good is allowed for show, even for evil's own ego and taking credit for any good even though it mars and perverts it by mixing itself with good/light. even sexuality/procreation (like iconic original rape/evil seed), if really analyzed at core is like darkness overpowering and using light to procreate with it and at it's expense, purging and compromising purity.

    If you really look at what is most commonly considered beauty, it's not beauty but obscene abundance coupled with huge ego attached which would be god, no? what is even celebrated as beauty here is like an overdone prostitute, garishness, fullness/abundance, overt sexuality etc. if you look at what is even considered beautiful as in women, it's telling that it's quite a coincidence that it's as if it was defined by a dark and overblown lecher of a god. god has turned life into porn metaphysically and spiritually, that's what most of conventional and mainstream society is. the majority is most representative of god's handiwork. it's all taking good/light and compromising it with dark and evil dna, so to speak. so you end up with this circus of garbage and disgusting shallow materialism, constant desire for consumption and perversion masquerading as love etc. devil's (god is the devil here) paradise but very little truth or wholesomeness or it's relegated to a backseat, naivetey etc. Can't you see? good, innocence, light is only a servant here. Of course it can't thrive here because evil is the real boss and king here!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Socrates postulated that an evil man, pretending to be good, would make the best leader than a good man, as he would and could look at things from a larger variety of options than a good man could.

    I think we all have good and evil inside of us, good being our default position, and react in whichever way seems appropriate at the time. Survival demands that cooperation be our first choice if it helps us rise to be the fittest.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    heh, okay. well, tell that to all the perverts out there. there are plenty of them who are pretending to be good while beating up their wives, raping children, stealing, dumping toxic wastes, selling you bs with fraud, all the while covering it up.

    Uh, no. an evil man pretending to be good, would have more evil or damaging or unfair results. it would mean taking short cuts, cheating, greed etc. they are not about good. i didn't know kim jong un, saddam hussein, osama bin laden etc who i'm sure all of them past and present think of themselves as good and righteous but that doesn't mean they are. but than again, lamely, we may have to address what we mean by 'evil'. geesh
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I think Socrates was mostly talking about political corruption and not the form you mentioned above.

    Somewhat in the sense that we see today when the governments hires the best hackers to insure and secure their own data bases.

    I guess that it is recognized to some extent that it takes a thief top catch a thief.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

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    hackers is not the very definition of evil. hackers are very good with 'computers' etc. you have to consider what the intent is.
     
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Look how beautiful the world is? Isn't it great? If this boy hadn't died, no one would know all the abuse and ugliness and shit people do and endure besides the truth that this type of stuff occurs hidden everywhere and anywhere. the part where the stepfather tries to brainwash the stepchild that they are the most unworthy is just classic shit. that's a very common tactic to lower the self-esteem, make them feel marginalized and isolated, blame themselves etc. and then the mother takes the stepfather's side because of disgusting perverted nature. whether he kicked him to death and she took the blame or she did, who knows. they are both trash but it's about survival, isn't it? lmao. in the game of life, they survived, so they must be right, deserving, good and 'quality'. you know, that whole darwin survival of the fittest thing.

    Nature is just beautiful, isn't it? Be strong and aggressive and you will survive. That's the epitomy of quality (throws up) right there. nature should know. nature knows shit is the best survivalist here because they are the 'nastiest'. All praise and bow before nature and toast to survival of the fittest. lmfao.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It is and its not.
    It is easy to focus upon the bad things but it is also possible to see the good.
    I get very concerned when I read your posts that horrible things seem to be your focus.
    It is wonderful you can vent here but I hope in your world you get to feel happy.
    Alex
     
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  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    True.

    I was just using them as an example of how one who is not considered good might be considered better than one who is only good.

    Regards
    DL
     

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