Why Buddhism disappeared from India

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by rcscwc, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Even fictions like this have a space.

    It is mostly FICTION.

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=76250




    Reality is quite strange.

    1. Buddha never waged any struggle against Hinduism. It is a fiction. He was not persecuted at all. No one attempted to kill him and he died at 81 after a meal of contaminated pork, as recorded by Buddhist chroniclers.

    2. Split of Buddhism. A few decades after Buddha's Buddhist philosopy and theology split in two. The breakways called themselves Mahayanis, and gave a DEROGATORY name Hinayana to the others. Thus first insults and derogations came from within and not from without [Hinduism and Jainsm]. They refuted each other making the work of their critics easier.

    3. Hindus take up the gaunlet. It was about 400 BCE that Hindu philosophers took up the challenge of Buddhism and started refuting its philosophies. By this time Buddhists, specially Hinayana, had turned hostile not only to Hinduism, but to Jainism too. Any wonder that Jain philosophers too picked up the gaunlet?

    3. Social upheavals. The major social upheaval was very much an economic matter. Large number of young men and women had turned monks and became unproductive. In addition Buddhist sanghas increasingly became the refuge of social and economic failures. Most of these were brahmins, kshatryias and traders/merchants [all failed ones]. Every escapist made a beeline for sanghas.

    4. Around 450 BCE some rulers of small kingdoms had become Buddhists. But their administration, military etc were staffed by Hindus JUST because willing Buddhists were hard to find. You can guess how long they could survive.

    5. About 310 BCE, Mauryan empire came up, its military backbone HAD to be from Hindus, as only they were willing to take up arms. Kautaliya took a hard look at the economic scene and introduced many tax reforms and innovations. One was Presumptive Income Tax, payable by each and every person, be a mendicant or a Buddhist monk. It started paying economic dividends and reduced the legions of freeloaders.

    6. Mind you, when Alexander invaded aroubd 327 BCE, he encountered Hindu kings who put up resistance.

    7. During Asoka's rule, Buddhism got a fillip and economicx and military strength suffered a loter. Later Brihadrath, last Maurya emperor was assisinated and his general Pushyamitra occupied the throne. 300 years later, this single assasination was BLOWN up into a MASSIVE massacre. No evidence found so far.

    8. After this Buddhists lost political power, a must for it to thrive. And there was increasing challenge from Hindu philosphical schools. Next centuries saw a steady decline of Buddhism in India. A relentless philosophical criticism by Hindus and Jains was telling upon Buddhism. About 500 CE, Mimamsakars delivered telling blows against Buddhist philosophy. It was finall mopped up by Shankara [8 century CE]. After that there were great Buddhist philosophers. Interestingly, it was after 800 CE that Hindu philosophers started taking positive view of Buddhism.
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I was speaking with an Indian Buddhist the other day (actually helping her to move to a new place) and I asked her if she had to move in with an Indian which religion (other than Buddhism) would she prefer they were.

    She quickly said Christian - because they are open minded and easy going. I then asked who next, Muslim or Hindu and she said "Id rather live alone, but if I had to choose it'd be Muslim over Hindu - I can't stand close-minded Hindu because of the Caste system.

    Which I thought was interesting.
     
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  5. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Yes. Buddists today are becoming increasingly anti Hindu, to the extent of aligning with muslims and xians. Mind you, in Buddhist lands like Thialand etc, Buddhists do not hate Hindus. They forget that in India, they can swim with Hindus, their natural allies, or sink.

    It is not as if Buddhists don not have castes in India. They do. So have muslims and xians and sikhs. But they are too hypocrite to admit it officially. But that does not stop them from trying to hop onto the band wagons of "lower castes" for special reservations based on castes.

    Interesting schizophrenia.

    Muslim open mindedness. Would love see a Buddhist in some muslim country like Pakistan or Afghanistan or Turkey. Would love see Malaysia giving them rights equal to muslims. Would like Pope to apologise for his condemnation of Buddhism.
     
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  7. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

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    That sounds reasonable. Only Hinduism among all the religions is so close and encompassing to Buddhism, to be be able to gobble it up. To a typical Hindu, ideas of Buddhism are not very unique and can easily fit into one of the racks of Hinduism, which possibly makes some Buddhists insecure. Every other religion is very contrasting.
     
  8. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    elaborate with linkage
    thanks
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    They must have been on the cutting edge of philosophy since I'm pretty sure that there weren't even any "hindus" in India circa 800
     
  10. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Any book on Indian philosophy will do. No need for references for DIY.
     
  11. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Hinduism is now understood to mean Vedic/ Sanatana Dharm.
     
  12. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    I think its more the case that hinduism is derivative from vedic
     
  13. Naturelles Future Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    214
    My take on the religions crap between all this - SCREW IT and get on with life

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    . I've been tired of thinking about this nonsense, and after living in the country for 5 years, I don't give a damn; I'd just let the people rot. You loose caring after a while - well, I did.
     
  14. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    It's not very Buddhist to care about the fate of Buddhism or it's sectarian struggles.
     
  15. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    When a person takes ordination in a Buddhist tradition, they have to vow to protect the Dharma teachings and pass them onto others.
     
  16. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    And that's all you can do. It's silly to care about whether Buddhism is popular.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    But who in this thread cares about whether Buddhism is popular?
     
  18. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    53,152
    rcscwc seems to care.
     
  19. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    up to a point it seems. the assertions, even if in concordance with conventional wisdom, remain unsubstantiated. a request for justifications is met with a shrug so....
     
  20. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575
    here is what would be nice
    lets eyeball what the mimasa/buddhist/advaita schools use for their premises and see if all or some can be refuted

    then we use their texts for shit paper
    andale fuckers
     
  21. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    .

    because it did
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    The India girl I know, finishing her PhD, is really passionate regarding her anti-caste system beliefs. She is/was a low caste so I guess she intimately understands what it's like to be on the shit end of the bigot's stick.

    While it may be true that living in a conservative Islamic country would be equally as bad, that doesn't take away from her point.

    Also, she did mention about how Indians (Hindu or Buddhist I'm not sure) would patrol her housing blocks (which only have entrance via the main gates) because Muslims were burning down their houses while Hindu were burning down Muslims apartments. One time she was trapped her in apartment because of all the violence outside - which she said was pretty scary.

    Another thing she says is funny is ex-pat Indian's who never lived in India sometimes give her shit because she's not acting like a "good" Indian girl... haha... they still think India is the way it was 80 years ago and carry on with traditions they don't even care about in India anymore

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    Interesting conversations....
     
  23. Naturelles Future Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    lol? I belong in the category, and the country is still a s### hole, and I don't give a damn.

    Violence? LOL, thank goodness I live in an area with many other "foreign returns" and foreigners themselves. Never seen any of it, but there have been bombings etc... in the city.
     

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