Why banning anyway?

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by MetaKron, Oct 16, 2008.

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  1. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Have you ever, ever, tried to write a post like a normal, regular, plain, ordinary individual? Must you always type a ten-page, fully footnoted, post to explain something so simple as ...."pretend"?

    Why don't you send me a "private" message, Tiassa, then I'll take some time to tell you how I really feel about you and your long, idiotically footnoted garbage posts?

    Oppps, wait, we can't do "private" messages, can we ...'cause private ain't private around here. Too damned many snoopy moderators, I guess.

    Baron Max

    PS - No, tiassa, I did NOT read you insanely long post ...I'm sure that it was just a long session of bullshit as usual.
     
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  3. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

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    Hahahahaha.

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  5. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    It's just something that people say to belittle others. You know very well that I usually react that way because I've been exposed to the same game from people who think that they are very special. By that I mean you've seen it, you know it, you've been through it.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    What's that you're pouting over, again?

    I asked you in the other thread what you meant by that, and you still haven't answered.

    Snoopy mods? How's that?
     
  8. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    The comment in question was polite and you seem to be more worried about a common turn of phrase than actual content. Guys, one of the purposes for a forum like this is to provide a place where veils of deception can be torn away to expose the truth.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The word probably derives from "trawling". A troll throws out a line (trawls) with appropriate bait, and hopes for a bite from his target(s).

    The troll posts provocative posts, usually with specific intent to provoke an angry reaction from one or more other posters. This is in contrast to posting with a real desire to debate an issue, for example.

    Trolls are dishonest, in that they often do not truly hold the views they espouse. And they don't argue honestly, either, since their main aim is to generate animosity. A troll's greatest satisfaction comes when an all-out flame war starts over a topic or post he has made, which may or may not directly involve the relevant troll.

    A troll usually doesn't have any actual content to his posts. Instead, he sticks to posting opinions (invariably inflammatory) and unsupported assertions.
     
  10. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I do hold to the the views that I espouse. The idea that I express those views just to make people angry is high on the list of fallacies that can be abused to excuse diverting a discussion or closing it altogether. It's also used by bullies. It's passive aggression.

    The fact is, as you well know, that I am quite capable of shoveling more content into my posts than you can process. There is a reason why you allow the personal attacks that you do and you don't even say, hey, settle down. I have to be the one who asks people to settle down? Some of the verbal skills that I learn here may be useful but the idea that you're teaching someone by shoving them around is another one that is abused by bullies. Maybe you don't intend to be a bully but it's easy to slip into that role.

    By the way, "trolling" is a word that is often used interchangeably with the word "trawling" by fishermen, as in "trolling motor", a low power motor that is used to drive a boat slowly and quietly around the lake and can last all day on a charge. They're pretty much the same word. "Trolling" seems to be reserved for smaller boats.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
  11. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Well, how else did String read my PRIVATE message to you ....and then ban me for 7 days for what I said ....in PRIVATE???? Or perhaps you think he just banned me for the pure joy of it?

    Baron Max
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Then I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a "troll". Yes, I post messages in response to others in an attempt to get them to see "the other side of the coin". And it usually gets an angry response ...but that was NOT my intention. I only intended to get them to think about what they wrote.

    So we're required to actually hold the views that we discuss??? First, I don't see how anyone could determine that just from a written post. And second, why can't someone argue a pro or con point of view WITHOUT holding that viewpoint?

    From what I've seen around here, James, people use the accusation of "troll" in order to keep from answering difficult or impossible questions that I've posed.

    However, from all you've said, I'm definitely NOT a troll. And never have been one on this site or any other site.

    Baron Max
     
  13. Mr. Hamtastic whackawhackado! Registered Senior Member

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    <pokes head out from under bridge> Just spackling the underside.

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  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    You are a troll, and other notes

    I want you to think about snail mail for a moment, Max.

    Let's pretend you have a problem with your insurance company, so you send off a nasty letter to the adjustor telling him what you think of him. Now, certainly you have a reasonable expectation that the mailman's not going to open up the letter and read it without some sort of probable cause. But when that lands on the adjustor's desk, and he reads it, and he decides that it is a continuing problem, one thing he's going to do is make a copy of it and forward it to his boss, so that the company is aware of the problem.

    Now, it seems that you're suggesting that, when you send a complaint as part of an administrative issue, you expect that we will keep the issue to ourselves, and this is an erroneous expectation. We cannot necessarily resolve the issue without administrative awareness.

    Furthermore, if that communication only exacerbates the problem, it becomes even more important that others who might deal with you in an administrative capacity be aware of what's going on. To return to the insurance analogy, any adjustor who opens your policy file in a future incident might see that letter.

    Private messages at Sciforums take place outside the view of the general public. That is their privacy. You can communicate with someone directly without having to post it in front of everyone.

    Once that information is in the other person's hands, it's out of yours.

    We generally discourage people from airing dirty laundry from private messages in the public fora, but it happens from time to time. If you sent a nasty letter to an ex-wife, she might hand it to a friend and say, "What do you think of this?" And up here in the Pacific Northwest, we have this custom that I've always found bizarre, but for different reasons. At each seasonal holiday, or around the time of one's birthday, people take the greeting cards they receive and put them on display in their home. As a guest, you're welcome, and, in some cases, expected to pick up the cards and read them. Hell, sometimes the cards even get passed around at the party. And I know it's not just a Seattle thing to do that.

    That you have a mistaken and inflated notion of the privacy of private messages does not surprise me, Max. It is, after all, convenient to your habit of complaining. But at what point do you think you continue to have governance over messages put into other people's hands? If someone forwards us a private message including stalking and harassment, should the stalker feel violated? If a disgruntled member decides to cuss out a moderator and expresses dissatisfaction, do you really expect them to keep it to themselves? How can the administration help you if they're not aware of the problem?

    It's an interesting notion of privacy you require, Max. It's unrealistic and dysfunctional. Big surprise, eh? But members here have posted private message contents between themselves before, which isn't the best idea. And they've posted private messages from moderators, which isn't as big a deal, since they're complaining. And, in a couple of cases, moderators have felt compelled to post messages from members in open view because they thought it was, in some way or another, appropriate in response to a public complaint.

    The one thing you should not be is surprised that someone might allow another to view the message, especially if it is a disgruntled expression pertaining to matters administrative.

    Briefly, a couple of other notes.

    Yes, you are a troll, Max. Your performance in #321 above makes that point rather well. It's a classic troll maneuver, to angrily refuse an answer to your issue because it's too long. You asked how we know when someone is pretending. I suppose I could have answered with a single sentence, "Because we do, Max." Or, "We just know, Max." But what would that accomplish? It's not exactly a short answer that fulfills the question. Yet you don't want the answer, which suggests that the question itself was bullshit. I don't think you really expect people to believe you're as ... um ... naƮve? ... as the character you play. I've said that before, and I'll say it again as needed. But come on, Max. Your expectation of privacy is overreaching, although it is convenient to your need to complain. And if you wrote a long, detailed, footnoted post, that would actually be an improvement because it would show you're putting some thought and effort into your posts and complaints.
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    It does get on your nerves, doesn't it, Baron? They set bad examples by allowing some people to use insults and personal attacks. Then they ban people for giving some of it back.
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Can't just write a short, to-the-point post, can you, Tiassa! Do you get paid by the number of fuckin' words you post around here?

    No, I didn't read your long, involved, idiotic post ....why the hell should, nothing you've ever written around here is worth anyone's time to read.

    Baron Max
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,601
    Whatever you say, Max

    Is it that you're unable to follow the post, or that you're unwilling?

    If the former, I'll see what I can do to dumb it down for you. If the latter, you're only reinforcing your status as a troll. After all, if it's not important enough to you to pay attention to, what makes it important enough to bawl about?

    And yet you keep on cryin'.

    Whatever you say, Max. Whatever you say.
     
  18. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Anyone who can't say something in a few short, simple sentences is either a pompous ass or mentally unable to be concise. In your case, Tiassa, I'm leaning heavily to it being both!

    I actually think, Tiassa, that you can't "dumb it down" ...you are unable to convey even simple ideas in concise, plain language. And I think that it's odd and a little weird that, with all of the others here who can actually communicate in plain, simple language, you are unable to do so. And yet you cling to the false ideal that what you do is right.

    You, Fraggle and BillyT seem completely UN-able to communicate without filling up the page with just plain ol' bullshit ...all of it, apparently, just to make more words. I guess the thought is ...the more words you use, the smarter you appear, huh? Well, to the intelligent, it's the opposite.

    Baron Max
     
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    heres the short version Barron troll

    If you insult someone via PM then they have a right to report it
    if you send a PM that deals specifically in mod related stuff then we all reserve the right to seek advice from eachother and the adminstrators

    yours oviously deals with the first, hence you were banned. I might add tiassa never asked for that but just made a matter of fact report. Your actions alone caused your suspension
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Are you permitted to insult me by calling me a troll? I'm not a troll, and I've never been a troll. And I don't think you should insult me by calling me one!

    Or perhaps I can do the same thing to you? ...you pompous ass! (And now I get banned for doing to you exactly what you did to me, right?)

    By the way, who the fuck are you, anyway??????

    No, that's not true! Tiassa could have just as easily kept it between he and I, which is what I thought "private" meant. Or he could have warned me that "private" didn't mean private, so I could have controlled myself a little more than I did.

    Perhaps Tiassa even sucked me into doing exactly that ...entrapment. Then went running and whinning to his protectors. Is that what he did?????

    Baron Max
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,601
    Easy enough for you to grasp?

    Some ideas are larger than your narrow mind.

    See above. Your ignorance and dysfunction are not my fault, and they are not my responsibility to either cure or bend over backward to accommodate.

    (Is that concise enough for you?)
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Interesting, Tiassa -- you can insult me in public, but if I insult you in a "private message", then I get banned. Yep, interesting.

    I'll say one thing, however, if nothing else, this seems to have taught you to write posts without using so fuckin' many words, or those idiotic footnotes!

    Baron Max
     
  23. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    It's a fine line Baron.

    Telling someone that they have a narrow mind, stating an assumed fact about their ignorance and implying that it is a dysfunction is permitted within the context of the argument. That you take offense to it is besides the point, because anybody can be insulted by anything. On this board there are specific rules (which you don't like) that don't permit you to say something like, "Eat shit and die you mutha' fucker" while a moderator is exercising reasonably good faith in the pursuit of his job.

    Keep in mind, that while you may have trouble making this distinction, very few current members do. Even the ones who are disagreeable much of the time. Judging by that fact, it can be safely assumed that you are the one with the problem and not Tiassa or the board leadership.

    ~String
     
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