Why are people forced to live involuntarily?

My thoughts exactly, except you've expressed them more verbosely. It is not the place of the state to over-ride a person's judgement when it comes to ending their own life.

I do think the State should offer assistance and education (in the form of counselling, and 'medication'), but participation should be voluntary.

 

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Sisyphus is happy unless he isn't

I would not disagree. To the other, though, I feel it necessary to mention that even so, we should not go out of our way to romanticize the suicidal in such a context, nor pretend that the suicidal is somehow victimized by the indirect harm he or she brings to family, friends, or community.

These are separate issues I think are getting mixed into this discussion.

 

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This is a good example of forcing/coercing what you want/believe is right on someone else. AFAIK, we had no choice in beginning to live. In so many ways a person's life is not theirs to control, they should at least be able & allowed to end it when they want.
Part of the problem is an individual's strong survival instinct makes them unable to accept anyone not striving to survive.

 

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Cheski, suicide isn't murder.

 

you are all making the mestake of thinking that this is a choice, in most cases it isnt

take a slighly different case, you have a pt with acute o2 deprivation. now they are highly agitated and fight off your atempt to put an O2 mask on. should you concider this to be an informed refusal of treatment?

 

Consenting adults must have the right to do anything they want, so long as it causes no direct harm to others. This should have been the 1st sentence in the Constitution if they truly wanted a free country with inalienable human rights.

 

Asguard, TLI.

 

i think if you are dieing, in pain and cannot do anything for yourself then yes you should be able to "kill yourself" people have done it aswell, they have travelled to the other side of the world to be put to rest decently, i know if i was in pain all the time and dieing then i would want to end it, and has for the kids issue, is it fair for the kids to see a mum or dad dieing in pain and unable to even talk to them, wouldnt it be better if the kids rememberd them the way they used to be?

 

StrangerInAStrangeLa firstly what the hell is "TLI"

secondly you hit the nail on the head in the post above that, any CONCENTING adult. now in order for someone to concent to ANYTHING it has to be informend concent and thats the problem. if you cant think straight because of chemical, psychological or organic issues then you cant give INFORMED CONCENT

 

WHO do you want to decide whether you're giving informed consent? WHO does Mr Hamtastic want to decide?
Do you trust anyone & everyone who may come to be involved in that? I don't!
In any & all circumstances, I am the only person to decide whether I'm giving informed consent.

 

you cant actually. if wether your able to concent is in doubt then by definition you cant make that decision. thats why the guardianship board exist, why medical power of attorny exists

 

A friend once suggested she & I set up (I forget the term for it) to be for each other the 1 who'd see to it that the person's wishes are carried out in certain medical stituations. I set out what I'd want done in several different situations with me being unconcious but said as long as I'm able to communicate with you, I want done what I say at that time.
She backed out because she couldn't go along with that.
The purpose was to see that my wishes are carried out. My wish was that in any & all situations she & doctors & whoever do what I wish at that time.

 

Total BS! I decide whether I consent. Period!

 

thats called medical power of attorney and as long as the treatment guidelines fall within the law they are legally bound to follow them

oh and about your second post, no you dont. if i as a medical proffessional belive that because of the illness your suffering you cant actually understand what im telling you then how exactly do you think you can concent?

the relivent act to what we are discussing here for SA is the CONSENT TO MEDICAL TREATMENT AND PALLIATIVE CARE ACT 1995

this is a link to it:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/ctmtapca1995420/

i suggest you read it before you talk to someone whos whole degree RELIES on knowing this act back to front

 

this is the other one we deal with extencivly

MENTAL HEALTH ACT 1993

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/mha1993128/

especially SECT 23

though to be honest this act is in the proccess of being amended, in all liklyhood it will be the ambos in charge ordering the police to assist US not the other way around

 

Oli -

Not always. Someone who is clinically depressed may contemplate suicide for a time, but not actually act upon it unless in the throws of a manic episode.
Everyone is different and so are everyone's motives. What do you suggest - that we completely stop trying to prevent anyone from committing suicide? Even if there is a chance they may be thankful later on?

Asguard -

I don't know what 'fase' is meant to be, but I'm assuming it's not positive.
At what point in that post did I mention clinical depression? I was trying to give an example of 'the heat of the moment'; a scenario where someone is so grief-stricken and devoid of hope that they would take their lives.
What do you think the 'suicide watch' in prisons is for? In that first night of incarceration the prisoner will be thinking about how their life is ruined - are they all incurably depressed?

 

Apologies, I misplaced the closing parenthesis - it alters my sentence somewhat.
It's not like it turns up out of the blue, it's deeply considered (over a long period) in some cases.
Um, act on it in a manic episode?
Surely it's more likely to be acted on in the depressed state

Not at all.
The comment was more aimed at the idea that for some people it is a considered decision, and the "highs" (I don't know about manic-depressives but I do know about "normal" depression) don't particularly alter the decision.

 

For me, I contemplate suicide at my lows, I tend to be more actively suicidal at my highs. A manic episode does not mean a happy episode.

 

I do not need any degrees to know & insist that I am the only person to ever decide whether I can consent to or refuse something. Any doctor or others who want to decide for me need to stay the hell away from me.

 

I completely agree.