Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by aaqucnaona, Jan 20, 2012.
I rather like it.
Infidel is my absolute favourite though, even if it isn't as literally accurate.
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A few observations:
1) Obama is a Christian who recognized non-believers. That Fox News thought that was shocking says more about Fox News than Christianity. Fox News doesn't speak for God.
2) Our nation was founded on the belief that we are endowed with inalienable rights by our creator. So religion is both pervasive and traditional.
3) This [the US] is a democracy. Nothing prevents atheists from running for office. Clearly no atheist has even managed to inspire the voters at the Presidential level.
4) In my view, fanatical elements of the Christian community commandeered the Republican Party back when Reagan ran for office. They are not representative of moderate, more reasonable believers. They are extremists who get all of the attention. And they have managed to mix notions of eternal salvation and their own narrow, faith-based view of the world, with issues of national policy. Politicians support Israel because the voters demand it. If you want Florida and a good percentage of the right wing, you had better support Israel! Read your Bible for cryihng out loud! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
5) Note that even as a self-professed Christian, Obama wasn’t good enough for many on the right He must be a Muslim from Kenya! So what we see isn’t just Christianity. It is fanaticism.
6) “Believe in nothing” is a tough sell.
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This isnt about the closet, I know that there are organisations, what I mean is that atheists are politically obscure [and somewhat less so in social and cultural areas].
Maybe so, but that is irrelevant, and not a position taken by any non-religious person I've ever encountered or heard about. Frankly the assumption implicit in your statement is simply a repetition of a very crude and tired piece of propaganda.
Saying that everyone who doesn't believe in a god doesn't believe in anything is as foolish and deceptive as saying anyone who doesn't constantly eat hot fudge sundaes will starve to death.
I'm not saying you personally think like that (maybe you do, I can't be sure) but certainly anyone who tries to frame the issue like that does.
Why do you think so. Like MT said, infidel takes the crown - but godless is used because for me, an atheist is a man without god - someone who does not subscribe or rejects the belief in god or doesnt care about god. So I am, indeed, godless.
Because US is the most fanatically religious modern country in the world. There are moderates, yes, but they are a smaller percentage of the population that you be typically expected.
Yes, it is. Considering that science [the usual alternative] is highly nonanthropocentric, it may not be lucrative to the laymen.
Why are atheist politically, socially and culturally obscure?
The answer to a great many questions will be found if one 'follows the money'.
Especially when on the money you will find written the words "In God We Trust".
Incredible marketing strategy, in my opinion.
In God, we trust.
No God, no trust.
The atheists have no comparable indoctrination.
Critical thinking and accepting responsibility for one's actions are kind of 'out there' as political platforms go, don't you think?
The OP's question is
If a group of people doesn't want to be politically, socially and culturally obscure, they'll possibly have to stick together.
Considering the caricatures that atheists tend to entertain and promulgate of what it means to be religious - so much for their "critical thinking" and "accepting responsibility for their actions" ...
actually the attempts to organize atheists have been tremendous social failures ... so much so that contemporary atheists adamantly distance themselves from such attempts
I found this article interesting:
Some followup of the above:
Also the following:
One mistake is to consider "atheists" as any kind of a unified group. They differ amongst themselves more than do various religions.
For me there are two kinds of atheists. There are those who are atheists as a result of rational, logical thinking. They define themesleves, and accurately, as being "without God-belief". That includes being without the belief that God does not exist. It is an absence of any belief. This is the really numerous group, in that most people in the world, particularly the third world, have not ever even thought about the existence of God at all, let alone arrived at a conscious decision that they have no God-belief.
The second group are the militant atheists who will tell you that they are certain that God does not exist. They will assert that as a fact. They are the ones who try to lay claim to the membership of the other group, dishonestly so. They are the ones that claim that every child born in the world, anywhere, is an atheist, because a child is born without God-belief. That is one of the most disingenuous statements of all time.
The rational theists I have no quarrel with. Most of my friends and colleagues are rational atheists. The militant atheists I do have objection to, for they are not really atheist as much as they are anti-religion, often specifically anti-Christian. You'll find evidence of a developmental pathology if you talk to them a bit - many were members of almost cult like sects when they were younger, and their rabid anti-religion stance is a reaction to that experience. They just clothe it in logic and rationality, or at least attempt to do so.
For the record, I am not an atheist, nor am I a theist. I'm an agnostic. Specifically, I have labeled myself a theistic, agnostic evolutionist - I do think there is some higher power, some organizing principle to the universe, but I'm damned if I know what that might be (it certainly is not the personal God of Christians), and I suspect we may never know (that we cannot know), so it is outside the realm of science. And I accept that evolution is the best explanation we have so far for the diversity of life we see on Earth today.
Nonsense. I'm anti-religion, I feel I've arrived at my stance rationally, and I grew up in non-religious household. I think there is ample evidence to show that a God most probably does not exist. And children are by default atheists until you teach them about God.
And religion is anything an atheist or anti-religionists says it is!
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Quod erat demonstrandum. Thank you, Spidergoat.
The Minister, Priest and Rabbi were at a convention one day and were asked how they each divided up their tithing's from their congregations. The Priest said he draws a circle and throws all the money into the air and what lands inside the circle he uses for Gods work and that which lands outside the circle he uses for the churches needs. The Minister said he does the same only what lands outside he uses for Gods work and what falls inside he uses for the church. The Rabbi also agreed and stated he throws the money into the air and what God wanted he kept but what fell down to the Earth the church used for itself.
I very much doubt, that children are born atheists, since children have a lot of imagination, and have no problem with fairy tale type arrangements of reality. A rational person would not accept a talking bear, or a friend that is a doll, but a child would, since they naturally live in the world of magic. Their imaginary world is closer to the world of theism that it is to the world of atheism.
Children like to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They don't begin doubting this. We have to socially conditioned them away from this with peer pressure. Atheism is learned and conditioned behavior. Why do you think there are courses in logic. The reason is logic is an acquired skill that is not innate.
how can ANY scientist outright state something doesn't exist without definite proof of its impossibility?
We hardly need to: their self-appointed spokespeople get up on stage to entertain us with caricatures. That reflects badly on the quiet and reasonable believers, but if they won't stop it, we sure as hell can't.
The main reason why atheists don't have a culture is that no ruling elite and wealth has ever sponsored non-belief. Religious institutions are well funded (through force, fraud, intimidation and addiction) and thus able to commission great works of architecture, art, music, tombs, costumes and dramatics. Non-believers have never supported a power structure that would in turn enshrine their achievements. A good deal of the religious art was actually created by non-believers, just as a good deal of heroic portraiture was done by artists who secretly despised their patrons.
BTW, Communism is not a reaction against religion; it's a reaction against an oppressive economic system - which, not coincidentally, is supported by oppressive religion. Most of the citizens of countries with so-called communist governments never ceased to believe in their various gods.
No skill is innate. Al;l skills are taught - or neglected, or denigrated, or denied.
Children don't make up the talking bears and Santa clauses - adults tell them those stories, just as adults tell them about the boogey-man and Baby Jesus. Adults tell these stories in order to influence and manipulate children's thoughts, attitudes and behaviour.
What children would imagine for themselves is unknown - we simply don't allow them that freedom.
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