Why a brain?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by birch, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Is the universe lazy? Its clear even with our brain things start to really breakdown with massive side effects we create.

    Could it be that the evolution of brain matter pretty much lets us know where the line of demarcation of how this universe functions and 'life' differs? It says we have to find our own purpose because it doesnt have one and isnt really equipped for it totally? It has basic laws or even infuriating/harsh ones but once past the primordial stage, its got really no set direction or agenda for us. In essence, this universe is low so therefore the brain had to develop to tread beyond its basic primordial uncaring, nasty dog eat dog, reprehensibly immoral cold makeup.

    This is where we can sense, observe and even judge the universe for ourselves strangely experiencing it just as unaccomodating to us as accomodating. How it does not care if we suffer or die etc. Like a dead end relationship in the long run. A sad universe to exist in for most.

    One things for sure, we are all going to die and the light blot out. How nice. Maybe that will actually be a good thing. In the meantime, we can devise all sorts of ways to distract ourselves or make up meaning besides our primitive need for basic sustenance while questioning the incessant nagging sense of what the fuck we are doing here, why etc while most are straddling the duality that life has so much struggle for some solace or happiness or death may be a welcome reprieve or dreaming of going some place better. Hence the concept of religion or the constant manipulation of matter to accomodate us. What i do notice the most is no matter how much materialism or physical comfort is attained, it is not the source of happiness or real fulfillment as in the physical. Its relational in how life longs to connect. Some call it source, god, love, soulmates etc. Its as if we want to go back someplace far from here. I think that is what our drive comes from to seek and part of the curiosity of whats out there and speculation beyond not only our planet, galaxy and universe. All of this seems makeshift triviality of physical life and there is a greater calling or need for awareness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    I see this universe in relation to life not being the originator of it but an accidental side effect. Its like when seed scatters, it can land on good soil or subpar or it can wither and die if it lands on no soil. I dont think this universe has the ideal or even all the properties for what 'life' was originally intended or made for so therefore very temporal and life constantly deteriorates and re-evaluates even though ultimately its all going to end here.
     
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  5. wellwisher

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    Your perception is based on an erroneous assumption in the life sciences, related to the random universe assumption; life is an accidental side affect of nature. This POV has it roots in pre-Age of Reason thinking; whim of the gods.

    For example, in life, proteins fold with exact folding patterns, with a probability equal to 1.0. Probability of 1.0 is not based on odds, but is where statistics end, and cause and affect begins. There is still no statistical explanation for why this is so, even though this observation has been known for over 50 years. It has always puzzled me that any theory in science is allowed to persist once proven wrong and if it can't even come up with a reasonable fudge factor. My guess is this is due to the needs of industry, since the statistical approach allows for an assembly line of clone workers, all using the same blind man's prophesy.

    We can take this folding observation one step further. In cells ,only very specific molecules will attach to transport proteins and to enzymes, using a lock and key arrangement. There is usually only one molecular key to each protein lock, eliminating randomness. The casino approach to science; dark ages, is a useful tool, but it does not reflect reality, when you are dealing with life. If you buy into the random life models, in spite of the evidence against it, you're thinking will be led astray.

    The brain is the organ of highest cellular potential. One can physically measure this by averaging membrane potentials of all the neurons. As life evolved, through rational/potential means, one of the logical milestones were cellular differentiations gaining potential, with one differentiated cell type reaching the top of the free energy hill. This led to a potential gradient and a hierarchy of cells, for cellular differentiate control. The neurons will fire, to reflect a lowering of their potential, while constantly resetting themselves. The energy is going downward into the body to help these cells gain potential.

    Consciousness is part of this feedback system. Consciousness appears within the flux of energy, within the brain, that is induce to flow from highest to lower potential. The purpose of consciousness is to assist the needs and survival of the body. A specific body, has a given neural output flux, connected to the specific needs of that species; its cells and their potential to the brain. The Panda bear's consciousness thinks in terms of eating Eucalyptus leaves, which helps with the needs of its cellular differential control.

    The wild card with humans is we have two centers of consciousness. The primary center, which animals also have, is connected to the logical control system of the brain and body. This center is called the inner self. The secondary center is the human ego. The human ego allows free choice. Free choice allows us to make rational or random choices.

    The ego may be the source of randomness that justifies why random is still used in science; we create our own reality. The ego allows us to make random choices that can hurt the rational body. This will add a wild card to the control system which begins to look like the body is governed by randomness. This is useful because it shows the connection between mind and body. But if you think in terms of the inner self and the brain, rational order is the way of nature.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Actually the idea that the universe or nature is rational beyond its basic building blocks and laws is irrational. The place is nuts beyond it with all kinds of crazy and absurd shit happening all the time 'utilizing' these fundamental building blocks as tools which you are actually referring to as 'rational' and thats limited but only consistent thing here.

    What i meant by accidental side effect was not dismissing that there is a real causal mechanism that starts the chain of life but more broad in that just because it can doesnt mean it has all or ideal properties or laws to perpetuate life.

    Just because something exists does not mean or a process occurs that it cant be relative. The basic functions, math and laws are not relative to us but it may be objectively and outside of our experience or reach. If you evolve in the desert you will be different than evolving in rainforest etc. Now expand that concept to the universe with its properties. Bumblebees are different from wasps because of environment and resources. In other words, if it doesnt exist here doesnt mean it doesnt exist at all but thats our limited scope. I suspect life evolves here on barebones, so to speak. Well, it does and it has to even so far as violating life to perpetuate it. You dont notice the desperation? The perversity and absurdity of having to eat another lifeform to perpetuate another lifeform? Think about this and of course its all relative. Hypothetically, if life generally was any harsher and having to resort to cannibalism or even eating your young or relatives to survive, it would become the 'norm' and would rationalize and justify it etc to the point it would not even be viewed as taboo.

    Just as crop grown on different soil has different properties, level of vitamins etc. This universe and nature has its own and more than likely like a substrate of more properties or laws we arent aware exists. If you grew up in the ghetto universe, how could one even fathom it could be more ideal or any other way? Lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, they don't. They misfold, with a certain frequency that varies depending on the protein and various properties of context.
     
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Everything is physical, including connecting with the larger world. True materialism isn't shallow, it's profound. Once peace of mind is attained, all I need to be happy is comfort. Comfort and mental states are intimately connected.
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Technically it is but its relative. Materialism itself is not the source of happiness or fulfillment. One needs purpose, hobbies or connections with others.

    As an example, one could live in a mansion and be less happy if alone or more happy in a humbler home with people they want around them etc.

    After physical needs and comfort are attained, the rest is superfluous and even non-impactful. Having a 10 bedroom vs a 4 doesnt necessarily mean you will be happier with 10 unless you need it etc.

    So yes, just materialism for its own sake is rather empty or can become ego driven at some point which can be a shallow experience of satisfaction.

    The keywords being peace of mind. You can attain all the wordly success you want and extra baubles but without anyone to care for and vice versa, share and be there through ups/downs etc, it can be empty even almost totally.

    So what this means is our emotional and mental needs are just as important, otherwise just physical needs met no matter how expensive is experientially meaningless and becomes no different than survival. Additional materialism is am enhancer not the most important source of happiness though.

    Think of it this way, if you lived in the most expensive decked out home on the planet but with people you were in strife with, would one be happy? Then it becomes clear that the gold plated sink etc is unimportant. Having the choice to live alone but with less gaudiness or with better people could actually be a better quality of life so its all relative.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    You are right only if you depend on social interaction for your happiness. Which arguably is more mental than physical, even though those are technically the same. I'm counting all media as physical.
     
  12. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I don't understand the existential angst. I find it a relief that we don't have to live up to any expectations from the universe. That means I can relax, enjoy a cold beer, listen to some good music and enjoy the company of my friends and family. What's the problem?
     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah and your friends and family could perish tomorrow, lose your job, robbed etc or your whole life turned upside down and other life altering tragedies. Not everyone has an ideal life. Actually most dont but trying to survive while dealing with all the bs and stress life throws at them. On top of that most peoples wishes or dreams dont come true either. Its not just about you or him/her/them.
     
  14. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    You make the best you can wit the cards you hold... do you have a beter alternative.???

    My life is just about my happyness... do you have a beter alternative.???
     
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

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    I never said there was a solution or that one shouldnt care about their happiness.
    Im just stating how predatorial, untrustworthy and risky life is here.

    And even with modern amenities, its still the same with the same social ills if not noticeable on the surface its gangene or poison is in operation, asshole or degenerate people etc

    But i realized the only real great leap forward is probably going to be through biotechnology and genetic manipulation: changing ourselves at the core.

    Otherwise, there isnt any real change but perpetuating and stringing along the same bad or inferior genes into the next generation which will cause the same social ills, depravity, stupidity, immorality etc. It doesnt matter how many skyscrapers, faster this or that etc you build because it will never cover up, fix or cure a genetic inferior problem and those ills and quality level of citizenry will manifest etc. A corrupt or stupid or bad citizen is still that whether they live in the taj mahal or a trailer park.

    Its very clear the major problem is us too and just technological innovations and gadgets for our use is not the way to improve society. Thats only half the cleanup effort. I mean, you can put lipstick and dress a pig but its still a pig. You can build nicer buildings, more efficient appliances, faster computers etc but ultimately if what makes up your 'society' citizens arent more evolved, it will reflect that.

    So if through genetic manipulation in the future one could delete harmful traits and promulgate better ones as well as higher iqs, you would have a more advanced society not just what appears to be where a majority of idiots using what a few geniuses invent while they take selfies all day and monday night football or wheel of fortune or wives of new jersey etc is the majority level of taste and interest etc. Its not good actually.

    An improved society isnt just feeding everyones appetites, comfort, entertainment and frivolous interests which is the stupid blindspot. Its the inherent betterment of ourselves or else we have the same shit and unevolved people with just more modern accruement vs a straw hut. Do you really think people today are actually more evolved because we drive cars, live in condos, use electricity etc?? Of course not.

    Genetics is really going to be crucial and where its at for the major breakthrough because organic evolution is way too slow and cant keep up or incongruent with the rate of physical advancement. Stem cell research etc, dna etc not just for eliminating disease or growing organs etc is not it but only part. It will be how we have the willingness to change, tweak or improve ourselves too because the problems are not just out there, it is also us: people/humans!!! That awareness and tendency to try and manipulate our environment equally needs to be turned on us and honest enough to fix, modify or eliminate that which holds society back within us or inferior or deleterious attributes which are not just the ones that shorten our lives or cause physical disease.

    The sickness and inferiority is also people. Again, the physical: bigger houses, warddrobes, cars, money, clean energy, the right president or whatever we think will keep us alive or improve our lives etc isnt going to change that because the biggest pink elephant is humans themselves and need to get out of their own way and needs a major overhaul. Improved genetics will.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    For example, the prison system as its just a societal bandaid. Wouldnt a cure be better? Genetic manipulation. Otherwise, you have the same issues generation after generation whether horse and buggy or flying cars, it does not matter.

    If and when we can definitively and safely identify antisocial, degenerate, harmful etc traits and eliminate them from the gene pool is when society will improve as well as raising the iq of the general public.

    The tactic for now has been that if we provide better opportunities, education and lesson disparity, prejudice, unfairness etc then less people would be inclined toward social ills which does have some merit theoretically but the problem is how can that ever really happen when you are swimming upstream or against the majority grain because those genetic inferior character traits are so often ingrained in the society's citizens and fewer evolved enough to make the effort or improve? The myopic selfishness, greed, dishonesty etc.

    But take for instance education or higher iq alone does not guarantee quality character. Druglords can be smart as hell but they are worse than worthless but harmful etc. Then the idea is if quality of life and the avenues to attain that were more fair as well as the distribution, crime would be less of a resort. True but first you would have to fix the selfish society that perpetuates and causes it in the first place. A circular argument and problem. Will have to go straight to the source: genes.

    I dont know how it will unfold. Without genetic manipulation it will take a hell of a long time for the stupid circus act of society to change. Can or will humanity evolve to be not just be more clever, self-centered people but better people as well? I dont know if you can rely in the faith in humanity as a majority but there are good people out there who do try and make a positive difference but there are more that are working against it or causing/perpetuating the problems knowingly and out of ignorance or selfishness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  17. birch Valued Senior Member

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    I recall this news piece i read a long time ago about some missionaries who went to help out and protect a village in a war-torn third world country. Then the men of the village suggested that why dont they give them guns/weapons so they can protect themselves which they did. That sounds reasonable right? You know what happened right?? Well, those victims turned out to become just like the oppressors the missionaries came to protect them from ending up doing the same thing to the people even in their own village! Humanity is so stupid, its sad.

    So no, i dont think you can just rely on faith in humanity and looking at history people havent really changed, our comfort level only has.

    Yeah, fuck with human dna. It needs and deserves it.
     
  18. wellwisher

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    If you change the parameters; protein atomic composition, water pH, hydrogen bonding distribution, ionic concentrations, etc, you can create a different fold. However, if you maintain the exact same parameters and conditions, the folds are repeatable. The dice can be loaded in different ways to achieve an exact result. This is not statistical, unless you assume random.

    The illusion works this way. Say you were unaware that two dice were loaded. Instead you assume, as usual, the output of these dice will be based on statistics; black box approach. If we only roll the dice 4 times, and each time they come up seven, you can still assume the loaded dice are governed by statistics. The reason is four sevens in a row is not out of the question as a statistical result. This is the pitfall of the black box assumption. Once you hide the process in the black box, you can't see cause and affect; loaded dice. You will see reality appear in the image of your random assumption.


    If you analyze at the universe, the four most abundant atoms in the universe are hydrogen, helium, oxygen and carbon. The three most common molecules are H2, H2O, and CO. Water is composed of the first and third most abundant atoms, and water is the second most common molecule in the universe. The range of atoms and water, define the baseline for chemistry; oxidation and reduction relative to water.

    Based on the energetics of the chemistry of life, all the molecules that exist in earth based life, exist between within energy potential range of H2 and H2O, with water the energy floor and H2 the energy ceiling. The energetics of chemistry and of life were predefined by atomic abundance. This is not random, but is based on nuclear energetics in the light of gravity.

    Science has also found amino acids and nucleic acids in meteorites, that were produced in space. Since amino acids are the building blocks for protein and nucleic acids are the building block for RNA and DNA, and few if any enzyme or DNA molecules can become active, in any other solvent besides water, tells us that water plays a unique role when it comes to configurational potentials need for life.

    The appearance of life is not random, but is supported by the potentials created by the natural abundance of materials in the universe and how these most abundant interact as molecules. The black box random assumption does not look this deep, since a black box obscures all these details in the darkness. With the black box, there are a bunch of ways to randomly make life, using rare or postured materials, not yet discovered in nature; alternate reality.

    The random assumption is useful since a black box method allows one to skip a lot of analysis. Once something is placed in the black box, you can't see it well enough to spend time and money investigating at that level. This can save money for industry by precluding specialty talent. This is useful to bottom line in industry. The problem is this simplification, is not taken for what it is; money saving assumption, but rather is extrapolated into the way of universe, layman can act like experts, since they can black box it to avoid expert analysis. Polls make everyone experts; consensus.
     
  19. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Do not confuse materialism, the idea that everything is made of matter or is the operation of material things, with materialism, the idea that one should merely pursue material goods.
     
  20. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Genes doesn't cause problems. Genes do not cause anything without an environment. It is through the interaction of genes with environments that organisms develop.

    Society can react to the genes present in many different ways. A society could just kill those who can't walk, or a society could build ramps.
     
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  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    No, genes can and do cause problems. It doesnt matter if problematic gene remains dormant or not depending on outside triggers etc. It also doesnt matter if those genes developed through evolution if they are negative. Uh, Duh?? Hello? For instance, there is a gene for inherited breast cancer, should we protect that and tell the patient 'oh, that evolved through nature too so it has a right to exist.' fuking crazy. Stop taking things out of context.

    they have identified some genes so far for inherented disease etc. In the future, they may be able to identify genes for mental or behavioral problems or tendencies which they have for some but its still early stages besides improving human genetics such as iq.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    @ birch

    Yes dog eat dog is how the human race works... an I thank it woud be good if people understood human existance as much of what you posted above describes... an whether people like it or not... for the beter or worse the evolution of man to machine is a comin... an me an you prolly wont live long enuff to see a strong effect of the betterment you/me hopes for... but in the meantime i dont set in the corner an eat worms cause the basis of our existence sucks... an you seem to dwell on it/whine about it.!!!

    Its as if you'r Pizzed cause ther ant some sort of instent fix for the human condition.???
     
  23. river Valued Senior Member

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    The physical Universe is but a platform for life to take hold .

    The Universe is about life ......always has been .
     

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