Who is your nominee for wise person?

No. People can lead you to knowledge.

And you can be lead to wisdom.

Assumption. Based on your own false perceptions.

Guiding you...

Because you don't understand you make contradictions

Again assumption. There is no ego involved. except yours.

QED

Whose ego is being shown to whom? Think on that.

If you're contradicting yourself you're showing your inaccurate grasp

Then stop it. It's that simple.

 

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Good point!

 

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For someone who claims that he is not wise, you seem awfully certain of your beliefs (not just judging that on your responses in this thread).
I don't understand how someone can claim he is not wise, yet be so sure of his path.

 

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Because he may know his path is not for everyone. Knowledge of the self is important but it does not mean great wisdom.

 

I am not certain of my beliefs, but they are my beliefs. I don´t know what is truth for you, but I know what is truth for me.
Ever since I was a child, I had a different perspective on society as most people. I was raised as a Catholic, and at age 12, I realized it was all lies, by myself, nobody told me that. I learned that myself, it was my truth. And my family tried to get me back into that going to the church thing, but I was convinced that was not my path, that is my truth. It may be different than a Catholic person truth, but is my own. This was at age 12.

Ever since then, I have read about virtually every religion I have had access to. Everytime I encounter a new belief, I find myself interested, it doesn´t matter if is a documentary on an African tribe, or a sacred book of Buddhism, I´m tying to see the real human nature behind this fake culture.

So by myself, I realized how religions are not the way, I am convinced, totally convinced that a religion cannot hold a complete truth. A religion maybe based on what in the beginning was a truth, but the moment you follow the path of others, that is exactly what you are doing, following the path of others, not your own path.

Now that I´m familiar with the concept of the ego, I found myself reading the Bible, the Upanishads, the Coran... with much great understanding. These books are not written by people who are asleep like most. These books were written by enlightened people, who knew what they are doing to wake others, althought there always have been sleeping people:
"They have eyes but do not see, and ears but do not listen".

So yes, I´m in the search of my own path, I still don´t know what it is, and yes Oli, I have an ego, like you, or Raven, we all have it. Or else, we wouldn´t be discussing this kinds of things, we would be in silence... because we would know the truth.

And when a person is wise, society does not like him, cause is not what they have in mind, in their ego. That is a fact.
When Gautama found the truth of hinduism, he was denied by hindus. When Socrates found the truth of Greeks, he was murdered by Greeks. When Jesus found the truth of Jews, he was crucified by them. When Osho found the truth of Occident, he was criminalized in more than 20 countries.

Ever since you were born, society starts cutting your wings off. If you manage to spread those wings again, I´m telling you man, society will be afraid of you, therefore, prosecute you.

 

Someday there will be a man or a woman like Socrates, whom cannot be shut up. Someone too powerful or somehow indestructable and shout the truth loudly and clearly and unhesitantly and most will instantly recognize it.

The internet I feel, will somehow be a good vehicle for this.

 

But you're not certain of that.

Knowledge leading to wisdom?

Assumption again. You keep projecting yourself onto others.

Would we not? And isn't it the duty of the wise to pass on as much wisdom as others can understand? Or hear?

It's another assumption of yours. Your ego makes pronouncements that are not true.

HIS truth.

HIS truth.

HIS truth

Again...

People only have as much power over you as you are prepared to cede to them.

Untrue. Blatantly untrue. Do you have a persecution complex?

 

I know it is hard to hear the truth of others Oli, if it doesn´t match with your beliefs, then you get defensive, trying to protect those beliefs. That is called the ego.

 

Again you misunderstand.
I am not being defensive since I have nothing to be defensive about.
I am trying to get you to examine yourself.
If you are searching for your own truth why do you keep quoting others'?
Why would you need to?
Why do YOU need to defend THEIR truths?

 

WS I think might be talking about a truth about and ignored problem with a society and Oli, you are talking about the more fundamental truths(perceptions) of the individual.

 

Oil? OIL?

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WS is keeps talking about his personal truth, so that's the subject I'm on.

 

Weel said man!!!
I was just going to say that. I was reading a book yesterday, and I realized just that. Sometimes, what comes out of my mouth are "borrowed truths", and I gotta confess, I was hurt by that.
How can you have your own truth without dissipating your ego? Everything you say would have the influence of someone, because that is what we have learned since we were babies. So how can I "believe" something?
Believing is dangerous, trust is something else.
If I trust, there is no need to believe. Believing is a trick of your ego, that rascal.

For example, when we breed out, we are trusting that there is enough air to breath in. Because we have done it before, because we trust, there is no need for believe. If we would not trust that there is enough air, the we would be holding our breaths, until we die.
And this is what happens with Religions, people here so many things, that are not confident on what to trust, so they start believing in something in order to be calmed, but they are holding their breaths. They are not going to change that way.
There is one thing we can trust, and that is certain death, it is so certain as the fact that we were born.

But is death the last step of our being? Isn´t there something else after death?
Nobody can be sure of that, nobody that haven´t experienced the truth.
That is were we need to trust our belief in a teacher, guidance. And there is much guidance out there.

In the great work of Nietzsche “Thus spoke Zarathustra”, the last message from Zarathustra to his disciples was: “Be careful with me. I have told you everything I had to say. Now be careful with me. Don´t follow me; forget about me. Let me, and go away.”
This is the last message from all the great masters. No great master want to turn you into a puppet, because he would be killing you. He would be a Killer. He will help you be yourself. The master means a chance for you, to be yourself. Only the small minds, the narrow minds that pretend to be masters and aren´t, will want to impose over you.

This is the message of a teacher, Samael Aun Weor:
"I do not follow anyone, nor do I want anyone to follow me. What I want is for each one of you to follow his own Self. I am only a lighthouse in the sea of existence, and I do not need clientèle in order to subsist... Masters exists in abundance, and I am only one of many; thus, those who want to find the Masters will find them inside, within the profundities of their own inner consciousness."

I rather believe in spiritual teachers that doesn´t have hidden agendas behind what they are saying, something to benefit about.

So I don´t know Oli, maybe I´m wrong, but I´m glad you told me these things, because you just quoted the question that is in my heart.

 

EVERYONE has an agenda. Nearly everyone who has seen their own truth believes (initially at least) that it's THE truth, rather than their own. That is why the persecution.
True wisdom lies in knowing that it is YOUR OWN truth and living to it. Shakespeare: "To thine own self be true"

Accepting you could be wrong is the first step in finding how to go right.

 

For you, what is to go right?

Do you believe in life after death?

 

That's a difficult one. I've never formulated it into words. Give me some time and I'll try.
It basically comes down to "could I continue to be happy with myself if I did/ didn't do this?" in any particular situation.

I think I'd like to, but there's no evidence that is convincing to me.

 

“If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit.”

“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”

“It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.”

“Belief is the death of intelligence”

''I have never experienced another human being. I have experienced my impressions of them.''

''Size is not a reality, but a construct of the mind; and space a construct to contain constructs.''

“Every fact of science was once Damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and "progress," everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man's refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde truly said, "Disobedience was man's Original Virtue."”


- robert anton wilson.

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The thing that comes to my mind right now: the truth is what I trust, not what I believe. What I believe means nothing if there is no trust. And what I trust can be changed with experience.

I cannot speak for you, but for me. And I know, I have an ego, that is a fact for me, for the following reasons:
- I get hurt when someone say something against me.
- It is hard for me to love someone who treats me wrong.
- I have a bad opinion about some people, what you may call bad hombres you know. Therefore, I´m judging.

These things create a struggle in me, because if I judge others, there is no way I cannot judge myself with the same criteria. If I judge others, I obviously judge myself, and that is the ego.

So, what happens when one person manages to let go of that ego???
That my friend, is the million dollar question.


So the thing here is, I don´t believe there is an evil character telling us to do bad stuff (Satan).
But I know our society-imposed ego makes us not be ourselves. And that is a waste of individuality.

This been said, I trust this: if one manages to cut the ego away, to destroy it, totally burn it; the true self emerges from the ashes. Like a tree, emerge from a single seed. That is what I call to search for the truth.

So now I read the scriptures (Bible, Upanishads, Apocrypha, etc.) from that perspective, look at the following passage that is in all gospels, and tell me that the writter is not talking about the ego:

"Again, the devil took him (Yeshua) to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
Yeshua said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him." (Matthew 4,8)

Satan = Ego. I trust that. But I do not know how to get rid of this filth. Thats why I read, thats why I meditate, thats why I keep searching everywere I can.

 

Trust yourself.

If it's true and hurtful then it shows that there's something that needs changing, accept it as a gift.

Have you never treated someone wrong? Ever? Even by mistake? It may be a mistake on their part. It may not. If not how do you deal with it?

No such thing as "bad hombres", just hombres with bad ideas. Talk. Listen. Learn. Convert.

Decide what standards you hold yourself to. Do you/ should you hold others to your standards?

Acceptance, of course.

 

The thing is, trust is not a matter of decition, you either trust or not, everything else is hipocresy. But I do trust myself, althought I don´t trust my ego.

Yes, I have treated someone wrong, I am evil in the eyes of a Christian. The thing is, I´ve made many mistakes, but the more I think about it, there is no reason for guilt, what´s done is done. All you can do is learn from your mistakes, it is sometimes the only way we can learn.
Another thing is, on what standards can I judge that what I did was wrong?
I know I shouldn´t have done some things I did, but I cannot change that, although I changed because of that. So I learned, so something good came out of it, there is no reason for guilt, we are not perfect, we all commit mistakes. And we should not judge others, as we judge ourselves. We shouldn´t judge others at all, and that is difficult.

I agree with you on the bad hombres thought, to do something bad to others is just a result of ignorance, of non-awareness of what you are doing.

The thing is, standards are created by society and our ego. So the real question is: "How do you get rid of standards??"

Yes, acceptance.

 

Then your ego is in the way. Trusting yourself requires no ego.

The standards you set yourself. The standards that define yourself to you.

And do you do those things anymore?

Learn to reduce the mistakes. Don't do things you will feel guilty of.

How so. Others are not you. Why should others live up to your standards? Do you live to theirs?

Only if you accept those standards. If so, why?

You set your own. You decide which of those that society sets are valid and live with them. Ignore the rest.