Dear Friend, I have been told that islam is a very rationalistic religion, where logic and reason are used to understand the quran, Mohammad & the hadiths. My questions to you are simple & direct, needing answers simple & direct 1) if islam is the religion of the original Jewish & Christian prophets, why did none name “allah” as their God? Why is not Isaiah, really “Isallah”, etc…? 2) what was Mohammad’s father’s name? was it not Abdullah? How could he be the “slave of allah”, before allah reveled himself to Mohammad? Was this a different ‘allah’ or the same? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/‘Abdu’llah_ibn_‘Abdu’l-Muttalib 3) If “allah is the greatest”, “the translation of “allahu akbar” “, then, who is he the greatest of? Other gods? What is the Arabic word for “gods”? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahu_Akbar 4) If islam is the religion of “peace”, where are the Gandhi’s & Martin Luther King, Jr’s of islam today? 5) If islam is the religion of “peace, why is there killing between Sunnis & Shi’a, between Muslims & Christians, between Muslims & Hindus, & between Muslims & Bahia’s? 6) Do you believe that the “jizya” tax is still lawful upon Christians & Jews in secular states? Would you be willing to pay a “jizya” tax if you lived in the West? If not, why not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya 7) If Christians must live under sharia laws in muslim countries, should muslims live under Christian rules in Western countries? If not, why not?
me odd?, thank you for noticing, & I guess you couldn't help yourself, you just had to respond whats with "[PBUH]"? are you a female muslim? as for your claim that I will deny Jesus, I deny that the muslim "jesus" is Jesus, the real Jesus will deny you & any other muslim as a follower, want to know why? ask me
Dear Wild Blue Yonder Thank you for the information you have posted recently. I just have a couple of questions if i may ask: Who is the Muslim Jesus then? And how will the Real Jesus deny any followers of God? ######################## Take care zak
I am glad you realize this; you are just a little faulty on who is responsible for this action though, because the fact that the surahs are in longest to shortest length, this is a sure sign & proof of editing I have a question here, if you believe this statement, can I ask why allah would send the quran down out of order? It does not make sense to me, does it to you? Because to me, I have to ask 3 questions; 1) was allah making up the quran as he went along? 2) or did he open the heavenly edition of the quran to different pages everytime he sent it to Mohammad? 3) Or did Mohammad make it up as he went along? Here is a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur'an I am sure you would be told to think this, but if you investigate the hadiths mentioned earlier, you would see that the pagan arabs bowed down with Mohammad before they were converted to islam, meaning Mohammad said something that they really liked read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_and_development_of_the_Qur'an#Satanic_Verses So when these verses disappear, it is evidence of human editing I am sure you could investigate further, if you understand arab, those hadiths are at your fingertips, just don’t tell anyone what you are searching for, you may find your self labeled an apostate for looking into this dangerous area, just say you are broadening your knowledge of the hadiths I am curious, which hadiths do you consider properly authentic & which false? And how did you arrive at that conclusion? Please think hard & find the answer in your heart
I was thinking about a response to some of your comments, but between school & work I did not get a chance to send you anything, so today I was getting on the bus & thought that there was some disconnectedness between the accounts of the callings of Biblical personages & Islamic ones to prophet hood. I find it strange that Mohammad, as a prophet of god, would not know that he was called, that he would be confused & need the assurances of his wife to know that he was indeed called to be a prophet Here is a sample of the calling & the responses of both Jews & Christians from the King James Translation First from this site: http://www.blueletterbible.org/ the Phophets Noah Moses Here is Mohammad’s call & his response From: http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/khadija.htm I find it strange that Mohammad didn’t respond like other prophets, but was scared, as if not knowing if possessed by a demon or called by god, that is unusual if the prophets of the Bible are the standard, don't you think so? moved most of this to new thread http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=59334
I also find it ironic that a possible Jewish person, Khadijah (sounds like a Jewish name to me), would condemn all future muslims to hellfire, by letting Mohammad lead muslims astray from God, toward the path of the false god “allah” It’s almost as if she did it on purpose
hi again forgive me for being late and forgive my long answers as im not specialist in sumarizing (reply to wildblue yonder) 1-they didn’t name ALLAH because they were not ARABS and as a mater of fact the Arabic bible includes the word ALLAH to refer to GOD.. and in Arabic its ALLAH to refer to GOD and Arab Christians use it and they name them selves referring to it too and u can see that the Arab cardinals and bishops use ALLAH in their names for example Nasrallah Boutros Cardinal Sfeir his name is nasr allah wich mean s victory to ALLAH AND HE IS THE highest Christian authority in Lebanon http://nasrallah-cardinal-sfeir.mindbit.com/ also The official spokesperson for the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem and the Holy Lands Archbishop Father Ata Allah Hanna << http://www.prc.org.uk/data/aspx/d8/2888.aspx >> atta Allah means the gift of ALLAH 2-yes the father of the prophet Mohammad was called ABD ALLAH and yes its same GOD. and GOD was known to the Arabs before Mohammad throw ABARAHAM (pbuh) and his son Ishmael (pbuh) whom raised the columns of al-kaba and after that Mecca was established… most Arabs actually were mushrikin which means they believed in GOD the creator the unseen GOD but also many other idols beside or as intermediate. But actually ARABS were not worshiping ALLAH but the idols ,because to worship GOD u must do it as he informs at least.. ALLAH is not a concept found by Islam or Mohammad it is the word that defines God in Arabic as it is dios in Spanish and the term god was known to the pagans of Greece and Rome and gaols and many other nations and they named gods and u name GOD. ALTHOU not the same. The word alah is found in biblical manuscripts once at least and its not the mater of naming. a Christian ph doctor LATELY claimed that ALLAH was an idol along side the 360 other idols in Mecca (one for each tribe) and he said so without any proof or source just to make a big NEW MISCONCEPTION. is GOD same as ALLAH? Well when u refer GOD to be Jesus then ALLAH is not GOD but the GOD OF THE old testament is just the same ALLAH. 3-The Arabic word for gods is aliha, god is ilah the god is ALLAH.. ALLAH is greatest then everything and other idols and gods as they are fake they are the least in the world so you are greater then those idols but ALLAH is the greatest absolutely then any thing or being or creature . 4-THE WORD ISLAM is a verb which means submission (submission to ALLAH ) peace is salam not islam although they came from same root. In ISLAM there is war and peace and war has its reasons [2:190] Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. [60:8] Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. [60:9] Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong-doers. Today there is no Islamic country or reference for Moslems and the laws of Islamic war are not followed although the verses that raises morality in battle are used by individuals and groups and many violations take place then if u want further about jihad I may help a bit. But when Muslims have no nation and are occupied and separated and colonialized siege and fought they will for sure raise in different ways to face and witch then produced resistance and terrorism which are different but all assigned same way to eliminate both denying all rights. 5- Volume 9, Book 83, Number 7: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Prophet said, "After me (i.e. after my death), do not become disbelievers, by striking (cutting) the necks of one another. [4:92] It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave….. I discuss ISLAM and what it teaches and not what Muslims do unless they folow islam 100%. As much as u discuss your believes and not what the followers of that believe do specially when they are not even trying to follow it. And away of political reasons and land invasion and heritage of the colonial times which are not that far, regarding Sunnis and shias in short see them in Lebanon, Syria , Iran, KSA and even Iraq before it was freed at the hands of bush. OF course ISLAM is not a submissive teaching religion regarding invaders and fighters of the enemy. 6-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya I think that was enough talking about jizya which was and even according to the orientalist -(pioneers of the colonial countries to discriminate Islam and Muslims and see how best invade and control them says)- less then what they used to pay to their former regimes according to it all non-Muslims pay it as a tax on person not including women, children , old , weak and poor and ill and priests and monks. On the other hand Muslims pay alzakat which was higher and from traditions that a Christian Arab tribe came to Omar ben alkhatab and told hem that they don’t want to pay jizya for they find it humiliating then Omar the companion said what will u pay then instead they said we pay zakat Omar then said so then pay zakat !!! as it was to earn more then jizya… on the other hand it is stated how the early Muslims dealt with zakat (companions whom understood directly from the prophet and many historical events were present… -non-Muslims pay jezya Muslims pay zakat and both are obligatory of course the term that Muslims pay to Muslim state makes hem not feel that he is paying to others which may be felt as a humiliation we all pay with no will all kind of taxes by force of state anyway. -at those times the Christian-domain refused to allow Muslims to preach Islam on the other hand they killed the messengers of the prophet and crucify the tribes that turn to Islam and it was never allowed to be a Muslim in any Christian country like Rome , Byzantium , Spain etc. -nowadays Muslims enjoy to live in Christian but secular regimes but the “anti-Christ followers” for surely are not allowed to live under the power of the cross -its then that those that pay jizya are under direct protect of the prophet Mohammad and he states in the last speech of hajj that whoever harms them (thimis) harms hem(the prophet) and their blood and money and honours are forbidden for others to violate same forbidden as the day of hajj –what humiliation is that!!- -Thimis don’t join the military and there fore are save of war injuries and time wasted there and probability of dying -while if I have 1 million $ I have to pay 25000$ u have to pay 4$ or 40$ for all your relatives!!! 7- Christians and non-Muslims don’t live under sharia laws of Islam but under sharia laws of their religions and its clearly stated in QURAN [5:47] Let, then, the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what God has revealed therein: for they who do not judge in the light of what God has bestowed from on high – it is they, they who are truly iniquitous! [5:43] But how is it that they ask thee for judgment – seeing that they have the Torah, containing God’s injunctions – and thereafter turn away [from thy judgment]? Such as these, then, are no [true] believers. AND when it was that the Jews of medina commit crimes that the prophet bring their bock and judge them according to what was in it so that u are not to be wiped for adultery like Muslims but stoned if Jew like torah says or don’t make me laugh what if Christian because I cant see how u hold two contradicting bocks altogether and accept it so lightly well that’s left to the preachers. For example in inheritance we don’t apply Islamic laws to Christians but what their bocks say and so in marriage for that its not allowed to get divorced if Christian in Egypt till today but Muslims can and of course there are the civil laws that all follow -the religion and commercial work and business and allowance to own lands and properties are all saved but political issues are not. so that they can hold administrative but not legislative or head state positions and that is human morality but stated in Islam clearly or how come a Muslim be the king of Christian Rome!!! Or president of USA !! * Muslims cant live under Christian laws and they never did today they live under western secular laws of the west that were (humanitarian liberal and accepting to others) as this is changing and more pressure to intrude the religious lives of Muslims the Muslims will immigrate or end all killed.
regarding order of quran and becouse its not a flaming topic i will answer with what i recognise from my 22 year old life of school and self search in other fields [17:105] AND AS a guide towards the truth have We bestowed this [revelation] from on high; with this [very] truth has it come down [unto thee, O Prophet]: for We have sent thee but as a herald of glad tidings and a warner, [17:106] [bearing] a discourse which We have gradually unfolded, so that thou might read it out to mankind by stages, seeing that We have bestowed it from on high step by step, as [one] revelation. The Quran was not descended as a whole but it was revealed when time was best so that people may feel it and understand it due to the reason of why those verses were revealed, and because its more then a bunch of commandments or stories of the former nations and prophets but all of that with many other topics of monotheism examples requests to think way to deal and treat, verses regarding spiritual concepts, verses to correct what wrong was people doing every time they got mistaken for example it would be illogical to talk about what the hypocrites said in secret before the hypocrites said and it would be meaningless to tell the prophet that he is no longer allowed to have any other wife before he got his wife’s and it will not be sense to talk about the miracles of Ghar Hira before they happened!! Or to answer the questions of the Jews of medina before he went to medina [43:4] And, verily, [originating as it does] in the source, with Us, of all revelation, it is indeed sublime, full of wisdom. The quran the mother of it was descended to the sky in the night of Kadr and from there it was there after revealed to Mohammed in the much needed way till it was fulfilled [5:3] Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion. As for him, however, who is driven [to what is forbidden] by dire necessity and not by an inclination to sinning – behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace. *Then it seems u have a miss understanding of Quran! Quran is not a story that needs to be consecutive which means that any way its not a matter whether al Emran is in chapter 3 or 7 or 100 because each is somewhat individual in its building and nothing of direct continuity is needed IT’S like A MATTER of which is first Mathew or Luke while both hold almost the same info and verses repeated 4 times and each starting from same point and ending at almost the same point and no place in quran it says it is to be in such order or else wrong happens *what happened is that each chapter was descended in peaces throw even years sometimes so how Muslims knew the order? QURAN is recited in prayers loudly at least 6 times a day no less and when it is recited it is in order and the one who was in charge of praying was the prophet himself. so the prophet in prayer recited surat alabakara the largest surah all at same prayer one peace uniting all its peaces in right order and from there at least the inner order of every single chapter was known after reading albakarah (ch-2) the prophet read alomran (ch-3) and when praying u are not allowed to read from chapter 50 then from chapter 49 but from 51 allowed. This simple method of direct practice to quran was one way to know its order other is that the prophet was directing the companion and the writers of the divine revelation to place each verse in a specific place -When sixth of the quran was recited by the prophet in a single voluntary prayer were some of the major companions joined then u have by simplicity that all quran was recited tens of thousands of times each time giving a more detail of its order and anyway what big deal the important is what it says and lately studies done by numerical searches done by (bassam jarar) shows that the order of the chapters is proved via numerical (jummal) and I see no need to embark all that knowledge for a thing which is of great less importance ,quran doesnt say it must be in orderand. - regarding secular scholars well there is no phase of history so greatly transmitted to us more then that period and the TV period after that. then they prefer to imagine and assume from the parts they like from that heritage that was transmitted to make rumours.. u have right to make assumptions but when u need 1 million assumptions to prove quran is not divine through all your work then someone has a problem because till now I have seen thousands of assumptions!! and anyway as u introduce christianity some times i would like to inform about the 70 gospels that turned to be 4 after 300 years+ of jesus
wild my friend instead of asking the virtues of muhammad and charachters u went to post every single misconception about islam and rudelly claimed that im a misleaded person in a way that u should have avoided from first time u saw some replies, and now i will be forced to spend many hours and flood the place!!! Regarding satanic verses that u assumed I don’t know too much about while I have get interested in it and I have read many different sources and although the story is nice and after viewing it carefully it was build from the same surah of alnajm(ch-53) but its logically impossible and throw hadith science not authentic more over u cant believe Mohammad talked to either Satan or Gabriel to believe it happened indeed For much to know visit this http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html First Altabary started his learning at 240 after hijrah after prophet immigration and while that would be assigned as the earliest in Christianity its not in Islam, because in the first 2 centuries Muslim scientists have worked so much criticizing and studying and collecting that they almost left non to those after ,and that the bock that Altabary wrote in this story; is a bock were he just inserted all the stories told to hem with no minimum authentication Altabary states regarding his bock:- "Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us" So ironically when he thereafter says this is not authentic he don’t contradict hem self but Muslim scholars were so transparent that they had no fear to report this fairy tale and discuss so that it will be all shown to us to verify by our selves with all needed tools The fairy tale in short statates that Mohammad was praying near alkaba with some muslems and he was reading the verry nice and great surah of alnajm wich really has its touch and affect specially in arabic language then In sumarry talking about Mohammad to the pagans that he didn’t mislead nor become a bad doer and that he don’t speack by hem self but only via direct revelation from GOD and that he was taught by god the mighty and that he saw gebrail two times in its real form ;as a great sighn that he was not misleaded (as is he was unsure or having illusions(acording to pagans) because they didn’t beleved he may had bad deeds) then it say to the pagans are u arguing hem about what he sees! he saw the great signs but have u see the idols “”allat and uzza”” After this the fairy tale start claiming that after saying that the prophet said “”These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for”” And that the pagans of mecca were soo happy that they went all and joined the prayer and at the end of the chapter as it is still today there is a bow, so they all bowed and after this all the idiolators of mecca hold mohammad over their shoulders and some saw this and went fast towards abysinia to tell the weak muslims that fleed to there. And with all this enthusiasm and as if mohammad "the claimed inventor of all islam" was nothing of aware, happy that all his tribe has beleved in hem, his wish!! so that the fairy tale said that mohammad wished god don’t reveal what will make quraish angry and after all of this at the same evening gebrael came to mohammad and told hem that what he read “These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for” is not from god but from satan and that it should be removed But ironically its also in the fairy tale said that gebrail then decend to mohammad the quranic verces (Qur'an 17:73-75) 'Admonishing' the Prophet and acusing hem of saying what god didn’t revealed and that for that he will be punished hardly And their purpose was to tempt thee away from that which We had revealed unto thee, to substitute in our name something quite different; (in that case), behold! they would certainly have made thee (their) friend! And had We not given thee strength, thou wouldst nearly have inclined to them a little. In that case We should have made thee taste an equal portion (of punishment) in this life, and an equal portion in death: and moreover thou wouldst have found none to help thee against Us! [Qur'an 17:73-75] And then after that it was revealed [Qur'an 22:52] that all of the former prophets had a wish and that satan throw into it and god then cancels what satan throw, giving mohammad forgiveness for he grow verry sad and his people after deniying what was said turn more haters towards hem and his followers and rejected hem greater then before! Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. [Qur'an 22:52] This is the most comprehensive the fairy tale says, and for it I searched for the hadiths and im Arabian from Palestine and I searched in the 21 bocks of hadith from the most authentic to the least and found no word of what this story talks about (muslem , bukhary , dawood, termithy,nisai, maja, malek ,dramy, khuzaima, haban,mustadrak, musnad,ben mansur , musely, abd alrazek, bazaar, mujam sagher, bayhaki, shoab aliman, aldar kotny and aladab almufrad) if u recognize other bock that ever collected hadiths inform me!! All found is that after prophet read alnajm the pagans bowed at its end ….eventually one saw it and left the city thinking they beleved while they didn’t bringing back the muslims from abisinia. And I have access to bocks of commentary and noo need to list them as I have no time to count them I read from 7 or 8 they all mentioned it and showed it was not authentic except “”aljalalen”” the least authentic bock of commentation written more then 500 years of prophet containing the biggest number of misconception from his wrong understandings to the claim that quran states the earth is ground while the first commentator "ibn abbas" shows it was spreaded over the water so that spreaded confirms no flat earth and ibn abbas was reporting commentary after the prophet hem self told hem much about”” and from aljalalen I bring most this story and from Altabary too connecting it in the most logical manner to be able to make it at least a fairy tale as its all contradictions. What’s the problem with this !!!? logically and contextually and throw science of hadith 1-Logically :- The immigration first to Abyssinia was in year 8 before Hijra (immigration) and the verse [Qur'an 17:73-75] that 'admonish' the Prophet for reciting the satanic verses was throw historical sources and Islam sciences and bocks concerned with that revealed at year 2-3 before Hijrah and the verses forgiving and justifying the prophet [Qur'an 22:52] were descended in the first year after Hijrah in median not Mecca!!! “Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?” Do u mean Muslims, the believers before the satanic verses, those who have believed those idols are false 100%, and for it believed, and they are not from among the weak but the strong in place and honour, did hear their religion changing 100% and say non! and don’t leave Islam! and don’t make a question!! And Mohammad hem self, and even after it, even if it is to be happen in few days as the fairy tale says wouldn’t the pagans of Mecca say Mohammad was deduced by Satan!! Wouldn’t many believers leave Islam! wouldn’t it be mention widely! could such an event pass so easily from criticism or just verification ?!! we see much criticism towards cancelling of adoption we see a lot about the changing of direction of kiblah and we see all the nowadays bright assumptions about Islam said in the past as if the nowadays missionaries were there claiming its not divine and it takes from other revelations and its from history and that some taught hem so and that he was crazy or poet or, or ,or and all are clearly stated why not this!!! No eco …:bugeye: do u think the early Muslims were fearing to transmit anything? THOUSANDS of companions! if some think it would be convenient to erase it others will not because they were free well men that indeed feared no else then ALLAH. 2- contextually :- Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23] This is the fairy tale verses inserted into the quranic context just to see does it fit with it!! As we saw it does not also fit with what was before it ! Its totally contradicted do u mean the pagans heard their beloved verse and didn’t read what was just after it demolishing their idols that were thought to be praised!! Were they stupid! From their argues we see they were much more smart then missionaries as when they claim contradictions we see that pagans of mecca said all what missionaries are still repliying!! and in secound century first Muslims have just answered them and studied them and cleared them when there is any kind of doubts or misunderstandings which makes the best missionaries offer what those before 1300 years ago end to discuss in best case. Some others says that the prophet added those suras right after the event and exchanged them!!! And did the prophet exchanged what was before also! And did the prophet changed what was next to the next [53:26]For, however many angels there be in the heavens, their intercession can be of no least avail[53:27]Behold, it is [only] such as do not [really] believe in the life to come that regard the angels as female beings;[53:28]and [since] they have no knowledge whatever thereof, they follow nothing but surmise: yet, behold, never can surmise take the place of truth. And it starts with [53:2]This fellow-man of yours has not gone astray, nor is he deluded,[53:3]and neither does he speak out of his own desire: And ends with [53:59]Do you, perchance, find this tiding strange?[53:60]And do you laugh instead of weeping,[53:61]and divert yourselves all the while?[53:62][Nay,] but prostrate yourselves before God, and worship [Him alone]! Which from here we see that all the events of the fairy tale were inspired by a smart anti-islam person after reading it because while the chapter states that the prophet does not speak from his own desire the fairy teller said that he did speak, and when chapter says he is not deluded the fairy tale says no he was, and while the chapter discriminates the idols he says it raises them and while the chapter says its even unjust the way of thinking of pagans towards their idols and that those idols intercession are worthless the story says no they are. and while the chapter says never can surmise take the place of truth the fairy tale is all a surmise ,or the verse was said regarding other chapter! that is not present at all 100%! and then the fairy tale talks to itself and as I noticed from the chapter the fairy tale was invented to contradict it, and the inventor took advantage of the fact that this powerful chapter which is fascinating when recited in Arabic had so much impact that it made the pagans bow when it was said [53:62] [Nay,] but prostrate yourselves before God, and worship [Him alone]! And as I told the pagan Arabs most of them indeed believed there is a true GOD which is unseen but that he has other partners whom are also gods of same stage or intermediates. 3- throw science of hadith:- A hadith to be accepted it must pass two tests the first is the “sanad” chain of narrators so that all of them must be fair and truthful and known and accepted to be transmitters to the prophets traditions and for this purpose many specialized bocks were written in account of the men studies and their virtues and characters and if the sanad contains weak men regarding that the hadith may degrade from sahih to hasan to ghareeb to daeef ”weak” to madsus “inserted” and thus the hadith to be accepted must be 100% sane regarding it “sanad” and after this is done and its approved there is another test “matn” which deals with what is in the hadith of teachings and saying and whether they contradict or not the quran or stronger hadiths in strength. Throw those rules as far as I know the hadiths are tested to be trusty or not and the collectors gave most importance more to sanad while maten was left to other scholars in their specialization. And no one of the 21 bocks of hadith included that fairy tale in one single hadith!!! And aljalalain collected all the refused narrations and after studying their chains they were all refused because the author of aljalalain considered it to be true because there was 6 unaccepted narrations so he considered that as a whole they can confirm a truth!! As to say 6 liars may say the truth while its unknown for truly who started this fairy tale as all what u need is to bring a chain from others hadiths and apply it and then find your way to let them accept from you!! And for this reason most efforts were done to study and verify the hadiths as they have no divine protection.. so the greatest human effort was done here in this field .. *Regarding your question they bowed for the greatness those verses said and not many did that and they bowed not as a signed that they believed but that they accepted some of what was said at least ,that they must bow to GOD. What I wrote is my words get a specialist word from http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html u see less but better stated. * NOW if u think that I am a kind of brain washed u are for surely mistaken as I spend in the missionary cites much of time and all my search is due to challenge and search of answer and reason, but ask that to your self because from the things that I read from bible and let preachers teach me I see that u can believe Jesus is GOD or his son or a part of GOD only throw brainwashing when reading much of the gospels! and u can never apply any fixed definition to what Jesus was and apply it to every place in the gospels unless u after so much effort convince your self that logic and language just can fit “trinity” invented at year 325 according to your scholars! and they got the authority of removing more then 60 gospels in the almost same fashion the protestants dared to remove some of the old testament chapters after more then 1 thousand years, or that u hold the most two contradicted bocks of religion the torah and NT. and u throw just any other then logic and language believe that the laws were fulfilled, and how other then executing can the laws be fulfilled or via completing them or by fixing of alterations, and how about that your most beloved verses in new testaments are no more then illogical ideals or u should love alzarkawi and must never kill a terrorist but allow hem to slap your other chick and if he ask a peace of clothes u shall give hem other too as if he took anything by force, u give hem other! if the terrorist attack a city u must open the other “the left one” to hem to be easily taken!! more or don’t u see that the fact that Paul was under roman rule that he was very submissive to the teachings of the pagan state that u must obey! or how dare u a "sinner" try to punish an adulter but have u ever think how dare u punish a thiefe!! a killer!! as they are stated at same level in bible...or u always need seculars and pagans to rule you :bugeye:
regarding your comparative study about moses noah and mohammad - noah was told that just before the flood and that means that was not first time to noah to get commands then its bad selection of you -moses was asked moses moses and moses replied here im , while mohammad was asked to read read and he replied im not a reader(shall he lie) since then mohammad knew how to read without writing -moses did what he was asked to and so noah what is that mohammad was told to do and he didnt!!! actually moses did feared as any human and stated in quran and ALLAH told hem not to -then nowere in your posted place i can see any sighn that mohammad or aisha thought he was possesed by a demon, but mohammad was not knowing why did GOD chose hem or send Gabriel to tell hem any!! becouse Mohammad was no expert in other religions nor he got any idea from them that there is something called gabrial that appears to prophets and delivers the messege to them, and gabriel didnt informed the prophet that time anymore then what u have posted .. -while mohammad raised in pagan medium the other prophets of the old testement are for the israelitas son after father in prophesy and they had a religion that they knew and bocks to get informed of such events while mohammad didnt then u did not post how all prophets got first revelation. - regarding standards of the old testement prophets i tell u that u are not man enouph to keep the standards of killing women and children by MOSES of OT or like DAVID killing his men for his faults and having 90 wifes and u see it much 9 for our prophet, or solomon whom had almost 1000 between wifes and slave girls, or live JOSEF of the old testement whom took advantage of the need of egyptians to take all their properties and then turn them to slaves to pheroh!!! or the prophet that smashed the heads of tens of children for molesting hem!!! via merricle i think also!! are those your standards!! - never tell your prophets stories to a muslim becouse u insult the prophets!! in your old testement.. or u dont know paul was the last prophet!! so please be a bit more polite and dont insult ALLAH and khadija dont beleve she was a jew nor a christian if that is what u like supose -if u have read to some missionaries that doenst mean u possesed more then the lies like raisen heads and much silly things that i offen hear, at last i just say what ALLAH almighty said [1:1] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [1:2] Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; [1:3] Most Gracious, Most Merciful; [1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment. [1:5] Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. [1:6] Show us the straight way, [1:7] The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
going back to what this is suposed to here is some of what non-muslims said about mohammad when westerns were a bit liberal and objective "The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History." He states that the most influential person in all history was Muhammad, peace be upon him, with Jesus second. Examine his actual words: "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, page. 33 Read what the Reverend R. Bosworth-Smith wrote in "Mohammed & Mohammedanism" in 1946: "Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's claims, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a Right Divine, it was Mohammad, for he had all the power without instruments and without its support. He cared not for dressing of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life." "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?" Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277. And then we read what George Bernard Shaw, a famous writer and non-Muslim says: "He must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness."(The Genuine Islam, Singapore, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936) Then we found that K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, an Indian (Hindu) professor of Philosophy, in his booklet "Muhammad the Prophet of Islam" calls him the "perfect model for human life." Professor Ramakrishna Rao explains his point by saying: "The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes. There is Muhammad the Prophet. There is Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Muhammad the Statesman; Muhammad the Orator; Muhammad the Reformer; Muhammad the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero." What should we think about our prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, when someone with the worldly status such as Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, peace be upon him, says in 'YOUNG INDIA': "I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind... I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life." English author Thomas Carlyle in his 'Heroes and Hero Worship', was simply amazed: "How one man single handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades."
Actually Arab Christians (like those in Egypt) refer to God as Allah. This is from my personal experience of some of them.
Even if he did, he is still a great man for starting what he did. He is Great, just like jesus. Anyway, the Jews' profit is the worst that ever existed! He is dumb, and has none of my respect since HE brought about and taught thievery, and u can't contradict because why else would the jews have stolen palestine. The Jewish prophet taught only crime. Mohhamad taught peace.
Doesn't Muhammad call on Muslims to respect all Christian and Jewish biblical figures? So by your logic, Muhammad respects crime. Oh dear.
Well, it was in all likelyhood a political marriage only. If consummated, it wouldn't happen for at least another decade, due to the wife's age. He was still great. He was a good ruler, an excellent military commander, and a major mover and shaker in terms of culture in the region. Essentially an Arabic Augustus.
((Doesn't Muhammad call on Muslims to respect all Christian and Jewish biblical figures? So by your logic, Muhammad respects crime. Oh dear))..??!! CAN U BE A BIT MORE CLEAR REGARDING ((CRIMES))!!! SOME CLAIM THAT THE CALLING OF MOHAMMAD IT SELF WAS A CRIME ! IN THE PASY THEY CLAIMED THAT HIS THE FREEDOM HE OFFERED TO SLAVES WAS A CRIME. but what u may have meant is that mohammad ordered muslims to respect christians and jews figures and those figures are criminal (many times) thus automatically mohammas respects crime by respecting the criminal figures in bible>>.... this is the only logical question i can understand from you . answer:- well while we respect the figures of bible, we dont beleve in this bible to be the exact revelation of god nor we beleve the stories of the bible are true, and we dont refeer to the bible for any thing good was or bad becouse we have from the good what is best gods word and from the bad we have non, and we dont beleve moses did what he did in the bible, from logic and morality of islam killing children and non virgin woman in islam is a major crime Book 21, Number 21.3.9: Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saw the corpse of a woman who had been slain in one of the raids, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children. while we see that the moses in the bible ensured that non of those children and women is to stay alive!!! under the direct orders of the lord!! wich lord some beleve is jesus before he entered to his vessel or somewhat. such crimes are not supported by Mohammad but gravelly attacked. Mohammad if taken as humanitarian basis he is the founder of womens rights in the moderate right way, and the one who put the best proceger to free all slaves without causing any kind of disaster, and a man who put a plan to unite the world under the monothestic faith that beleves that our lord is one lord not pert pluss 3 in 1 and save your self by saving your money, and Mohammad who should be refered as non to lock like the retard filthy and secular muslims had a direct plan and procedure to end poverty and and to end the missery of orfants, and mohammad is the first to give captives and prisioners rights and more and more that i will illustrate later with proofs
