WHO is Mohammed?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by chuuush, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. chuuush Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    "If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls.... his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire,. his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God,. the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not,. the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.

    Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? "

    Lamartine, Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854 Vol II, pp. 276-77.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,296
    Yes, he's certainly the most influential human to date.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. machaon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    734
    Mohammed

    I don't know who he is, but I bet he can move like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,296
    He is young, fast, pretty and CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE BEATEN.

    I can say that so much better than I can write it. Shame.
     
  8. Voodoo Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,296
    General Philosophy? eh?
     
  9. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    I thought this might be of interest ...

    Muhammad (pbuh)

    machaon: Your comment reminded me
    of this quote:

    "The man who has no imagination stands
    on the earth. He has no wings. He cannot
    fly." -Muhammad Ali
     
  10. chuuush Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    "It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher. "

    Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p. 4
     
  11. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,830
    Hmm...If memory serves me, than mohammed married a 7 year old. A few other things too.....

    I'm not racist or anything, but any middle aged man with the guts to marry (and do what else) to a 7 year old does not have my respect.

    Mohammed was not a great man, IMO. A great man is somebody who influences everybody in a positive way. JFK was a great man. Churchill was a great man, but Mohammed wasn't.

    No offense to anyone, but those are just my feelings on the topic.
     
  12. I have a problem with Muhammad being anything, but the leader of the forces of the Anti-Christ. As the Bible says & Jesus reaffirms, this world is controlled by Satan & to have him take back his own, one person, nation or continent at a time, is no mystery. Jesus said that His sheep knew His voice; sooner or later Satan's children will hear his voice calling them to prayer. The espouser of Satan's world domination is indeed a mighty man, a warrior, a lawgiver, a poet, a lover, a world changer. But as Jesus said, what does a man win, if he gains the world, but loses his own soul?

    No human has made more of a difference in the day to day life of billions; in culture, language, art, history, religion and politics, than Muhammad. But is submission to Allah what gets you into Heaven or salvation by Christ? Muslims claim that Jesus was a muslim; I contend that true muslims will follow Jesus, and submit to God's will in His glorious love for us. The end of sacrifice came with Jesus (with the fall of the Second Temple), the end of our days will see the rise of the Third Temple (as in three? a Trinity? Hmmmm?).

    I believe God speaks to all through the Bible, as the Word of God, it speaks to all men, through all time, all languages, all nations, all dimensions. Any god that only speaks one language can only speak to one people and is therefore a tribal god (Arab), not a universal God. The Creator speaks to His people, in whatever language is needed to be understood. No language is sacred; no land is sacred, only God is sacred.

    By the way, if you read the site linked, it seems to me they are puffing up Mohammad, is that pride or what? Also, what is the difference between Jihad and conquest? It seems & at least the extremists agree, that the goal of Islam is world domination, where there is only one true religion, Dar al-Islam (the land of Islam), and all the rest of Dar al-Harb (the land of war), becomes smaller. That means Jihad, until no one opposes Islam.
     
  13. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Randolfo: Just to be clear - I enjoy studying religions and their
    various histories. I enjoy doing this because, in my opinion, they
    have something to offer in the food for thought dept. This does
    not mean I don't think people should worship as they see fit,
    what a person does on that level is their own business. I also
    don't think one religion is better than another - each one has
    its good and bad sides. If I remember correctly, I have already
    expressed my personal view on religion/spirituality before on
    this forum around the end of September and feel it would be
    repetitive to do so again.

    I take issue with religion being shoved down my (or anyones)
    throat as well as what is done in the name of [insert favorite
    diety here] and against what is written in that particular religion.
    I can't stand people who do not practice what they preach and
    use religion to further whatever agenda they have.

    Philosophy, religion, literature, and alchemy are all subjects I am
    very interested in and have been most of my life. I have already
    begun my studies in alchemy via this website and will be taking
    courses in the spring to continue my education in the other
    areas.

    I posted that link because, as I said, I thought it might be of
    interest. I posted the definition of jihad for the same reason.
    Nothing more should be read into it, if you know what I mean.
     
  14. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Not sure of the age of the girl she might have been 6.
    But you are correct. If my memory serves (it is late so it
    might not be at the moment), she was given in marriage by
    her father - she was 9 when the marriage was consumated.

    There is a lot more that goes along with this but I would
    have to look it up first before I would feel comfortable
    commenting any further.
     
  15. Al-Ameen Registered Member

    Messages:
    10
    Mohammad(pbuh) did not mary a seven year old

    If ure memory serves u right???? Who the hell put it there in the first place? Muhammed(pbuh) did not marry a seven, eight or nine year old. You acknowledge that he influenced the minds of millions of people and at the other end you say he married a seven year old!!?? You think half the people of the world were crazy at that time. Hell and why are there more cases of child sexual abuse in thewest then there are in the east?? You people gotta think here!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Hadith

    Other Commonly Used Spellings: HADIS, HADEETH

    Reports on the sayings and the traditions of Prophet Muhammad
    (s.a.w.) or what he witnessed and approved are called Hadith.
    These are the real explanation, interpretation, and the living
    example of the Prophet (s.a.w.) for teachings of the Qur'an. His
    sayings are found in books called the Hadith books.

    Some famous collectors of Hadith are Imam Al-Bukhari, Imam Muslim,
    Imam An-Nasa'i, Imam Abu Dawood, Imam At-Tirmizi, and Imam
    Majah. There are many others.

    Source:
    Glossary of Islamic Terms and Concepts


    Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah. The reports of the
    Prophet's sayings and deeds are called ahadith. Bukhari lived a
    couple of centuries after the Prophet's death and worked
    extremely hard to collect his ahadith. Each report in his collection
    was checked for compatibility with the Qur'an, and the veracity of
    the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established.
    Bukhari's collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of
    the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of
    the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).

    Bukhari (full name Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Ismail bin Ibrahim
    bin al-Mughira al-Ja'fai) was born in 194 A.H. and died in 256 A.H.
    His collection of hadith is considered second to none. He spent
    sixteen years compiling it, and ended up with 2,602 hadith (9,082
    with repetition). His criteria for acceptance into the collection
    were amongst the most stringent of all the scholars of ahadith.

    It is important to realize, however, that Bukhari's collection is not
    complete: there are other scholars who worked as Bukhari did
    and collected other authentic reports.

    Source:
    Introduction to Translation of Sahih Bukhari

    Sahih Bukhari - Book 62
    Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah)

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
    Narrated 'Aisha:

    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he
    consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and
    then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
    ____________________

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
    Narrated 'Aisha:

    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he
    consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham
    said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet
    for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran
    (by heart)'
    ____________________

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
    Narrated 'Ursa:

    The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she
    was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while
    she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years
    (i.e. till his death).

    Source:
    MSA-USC Hadith Database

    See also:
    Quraan.com

    Google Search: Hadith
     
  17. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,830
    Al-Ameen,

    I never meant to offend you or anyone. I go off the facts. You're the one who has to think here.

    I'd like to see you use some evidence if you can. All you say is "mohammed didn't marry a seven year old? how old was she? just how many wives DID mohammed have?

    There are more sexual abuse cases in western countries. Hmm, I wonder why. --Maybe, just maybe, it's cause women get walk the streets freely, and don't need to be accompanied by a man most of the time. And maybe some people are just brought up as assholes. And I should remind also remind you that a superiority complex still exists in the "east" where few women are let to suceed. How many women bussineesspeople are there in Pakistan? As what's his face said - there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. And you my friend, present nothing more than an inholistic statistic.

    I should also remind you that it's possible for a person to influence many people, compelling them to act a certain way, but not necessarily in a good way. Hitler, Stalin..what have you.
    No idea is either inherently evil or good. Can you accept that? I just don't believe that a man who would take the youth of a child is worthy as being labelled a great man. I also don't buy the idea that a "prophet" would do such a worldly thing. Pedophilia. How does a middle aged man connect with a seven year old. At that age, there cognitive skills aren't even fully developed.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    You don't have to be crazy to adopt a religion. In a time when science was an outside interest, how could you not? Islam was accessible.

    ~~~~~Peace
     
  18. GB-GIL Trans-global Senator Evilcheese, D-Iraq Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,718
    Wrong, Elbaz.

    Since you made the claim first (that Mohammad [pbuh] married a 7-yr-old), you have the burden of proof.
     
  19. Al-Ameen Registered Member

    Messages:
    10
    The Ancient Myth Exposed
    by T.O. Shanavas
    A Christian friend asked me once, "Will you marry your seven year
    old daughter to a fifty year old man?" I kept my silence. He
    continued, "If you would not, how can you approve the marriage of an innocent seven year old, Ayesha, with your Prophet?" I told him, "I don't have an answer to your question at this time." My
    friend smiled and left me with a thorn in the heart of my faith. Most Muslims answer that such marriages were accepted in those days. Otherwise, people would have objected to Prophet's marriage with Ayesha.
    However, such an explanation would be gullible only for those who are naive enough to believe it. But unfortunately, I was not satisfied with the answer.
    The Prophet was an exemplary man. All his actions were most virtuous so that we, Muslims, can emulate them. However, most people in our Islamic Center of Toledo, including me, would not think of betrothing our seven years daughter to a fifty-two year-old man. If a parent agrees to such a wedding, most people, if not all, would look down upon the father and the old husband.
    In 1923, registrars of marriage in Egypt were instructed not to
    register and issue official certificates of marriage for brides less
    than sixteen and grooms less than eighteen years of age. Eight years later, the Law of the Organization and Procedure of Sheriah courts of 1931 consolidated the above provision by not hearing the marriage disputes involving brides less than sixteen and grooms less than eighteen years old. (Women in Muslim Family Law, John Esposito, 1982). It shows that even in the Muslim majority country of Egypt the child marriages are unacceptable.
    So, I believed, without solid evidence other than my reverence to my Prophet, that the stories of the marriage of seven-year-old Ayesha to 50-year-old Prophet are only myths. However, my long pursuit in search of the truth on this matter proved my intuition correct. My Prophet was a gentleman. And he did not marry an innocent seven or nine year old girl. The age of Ayesha has been erroneously reported in the hadith literature. Furthermore, I think that the narratives reporting this event are highly unreliable. Some of the hadith regarding Ayesha's age at the time of
    her wedding with prophet are problematic. I present the following evidences against the acceptance of the fictitious story by Hisham ibn Urwah and to clear the name of my Prophet as an irresponsible old man preying on an innocent little girl.
    EVIDENCE #1: Reliability of Source
    Most of the narratives printed in the books of hadith are reported
    only by Hisham ibn `Urwah, who was reporting on the authority of his father. First of all, more people than just one, two or three should logically have reported. It is strange that no one from Medina, where Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first 71 years of his life narrated the event, despite the fact that his Medinan pupils included the well- respected Malik ibn Anas. The origins of the report of the narratives of this event are people from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medina for most of his life.
    Tehzibu'l-Tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life
    and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet,
    reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "He [Hisham] is
    highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq" (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn
    Hajar Al- `asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, 15th century. Vol 11, p. 50).
    It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people in Iraq: "I have been told that Malik objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq" (Tehzi'b u'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al- `asqala'ni, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol.11, p. 50).
    Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the life sketches of the
    narrators of the traditions of the Prophet reports: "When he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly" (Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, Al-Zahbi, Al- Maktabatu'l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol. 4, p. 301).
    CONCLUSION: Based on these references, Hisham's memory was
    failing and his narratives while in Iraq were unreliable. So, his narrative of Ayesha's marriage and age are unreliable.
    CHRONOLOGY: It is vital also to keep in mind some of the pertinent
    dates in the history of Islam:
    pre-610 CE: Jahiliya (pre-Islamic age) before revelation
    610 CE: First revelation
    610 CE: AbuBakr accepts Islam
    613 CE: Prophet Muhammad begins preaching publicly.
    615 CE: Emigration to Abyssinia
    616 CE: Umar bin al Khattab accepts Islam
    620 CE: Generally accepted betrothal of Ayesha to the Prophet
    622 CE: Hijrah (emigation to Yathrib, later renamed Medina)
    623/624 CE: Generally accepted year of Ayesha living with the Prophet
    EVIDENCE #2: The Betrothal
    According to Tabari (also according to Hisham ibn `Urwah, Ibn
    Hunbal and Ibn Sad), Ayesha was betrothed at seven years of age and began to cohabit with the Prophet at the age of nine years. However, in another work, Al-Tabari says: "All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives during the
    pre-Islamic period" (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari (died
    922), Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979).
    If Ayesha was betrothed in 620 CE (at the age of seven) and started to live with the Prophet in 624 CE (at the age of nine), that would indicate that she was born in 613 CE and was nine when she began living with the Prophet. Therefore, based on one account of Al- Tabari, the numbers show that Ayesha must have born in 613 CE, three years after the beginning of revelation (610 CE). Tabari also states that Ayesha was born in the pre-Islamic era (in Jahiliya). If she was born before 610 CE, she would have been at least 14 years old when she began living with the Prophet. Essentially, Tabari contradicts himself.
    CONCLUSION: Al-Tabari is unreliable in the matter of determining
    Ayesha's age.

    EVIDENCE # 3: The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Fatima According to Ibn Hajar, "Fatima was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet was 35 years old... she was five years older that Ayesha" (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al- Asqalani, Vol. 4, p. 377, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978).
    If Ibn Hajar's statement is factual, Ayesha was born when the
    Prophet was 40 years old. If Ayesha was married to the Prophet when he was 52 years old, Ayesha's age at marriage would be 12 years.
    CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar, Tabari an Ibn Hisham and Ibn Humbal contradict each other. So, the marriage of Ayesha at seven years of age is a myth.

    EVIDENCE #4: Ayesha's Age in relation to Asma's Age
    According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd: "Asma was 10
    years older than Ayesha (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol.2,
    p. 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992).
    According to Ibn Kathir: "She [Asma] was elder to her sister
    [Ayesha]
    by 10 years" (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p.
    371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933).
    According to Ibn Kathir: "She [Asma] saw the killing of her son
    during that year [73 AH], as we have already mentioned, and five days later she herself died. According to other narratives, she died not after five days but 10 or 20, or a few days over 20, or 100 days later. The most well known narrative is that of 100 days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (Al-Bidayah
    wa'l- nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)
    According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: "She [Asma] lived a hundred
    years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, p. 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif,
    Lucknow).
    According to almost all the historians, Asma, the elder sister of
    Ayesha was 10 years older than Ayesha. If Asma was 100 years old in 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of the hijrah.
    If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha should have been 17 or 18 years old. Thus, Ayesha, being 17 or 18 years of at the time of Hijra, she started to cohabit with the Prophet between at either 19 to 20 years of age.
    Based on Hajar, Ibn Katir, and Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd,
    Ayesha's age at the time she began living with the Prophet would
    be 19 or 20. In Evidence # 3, Ibn Hajar suggests that Ayesha was 12 years old and in Evidence #4 he contradicts himself with a 17 or 18- year-old Ayesha. What is the correct age, twelve or eighteen?
    CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar is an unreliable source for Ayesha's age.

    EVIDENCE #5: The Battles of Badr and Uhud
    A narrative regarding Ayesha's participation in Badr is given in
    the hadith of Muslim, (Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab
    karahiyati'l- isti`anah fi'l-ghazwi bikafir). Ayesha, while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey, says: "when we reached Shajarah". Obviously, Ayesha was with the group travelling towards Badr. A narrative regarding Ayesha's participation in the Battle of Uhud is given in Bukhari (Kitabu'l- jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal): "Anas reports that on the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet. [On that day,] I saw Ayesha and Umm-i-Sulaim, they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hindrance in their movement]." Again, this indicates that Ayesha was present in the Battles of Uhud and Badr.
    It is narrated in Bukhari (Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab
    Ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b): "Ibn `Umar states that the Prophet did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was 14 years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was 15 years old, the Prophet permitted my participation."
    Based on the above narratives, (a) the children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to participate in the Battle of Uhud, and (b) Ayesha participated in the Battles of Badr and Uhud
    CONCLUSION: Ayesha's participation in the Battles of Badr and
    Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine years old but at least 15 years old. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden on them. This account is another contradiction regarding Ayesha's age.

    EVIDENCE #6: Surat al-Qamar (The Moon)
    According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha was born about eight years before hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari, Ayesha is reported to have said: "I was a young girl (jariyah in Arabic)" when Surah Al-Qamar was revealed (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr).
    Chapter 54 of the Quran was revealed eight years before hijrah (The Bounteous Koran, M.M. Khatib, 1985), indicating that it was revealed in 614 CE. If Ayesha started living with the Prophet at the age of nine in 623 CE or 624 CE, she was a newborn infant (sibyah in Arabic) at the time that Surah Al-Qamar (The Moon) was revealed. According to the above tradition, Ayesha was actually a young girl, not an infant in the year of revelation of Al-Qamar. Jariyah means young playful girl (Lane's Arabic English Lexicon). So, Ayesha, being a jariyah not
    a sibyah (infant), must be somewhere between 6-13 years old at the time of revelation of Al-Qamar, and therefore must have been 14-21 years at the time she married the Prophet.
    CONCLUSION: This tradition also contradicts the marriage of Ayesha at the age of nine.

    EVIDENCE #7: Arabic Terminology
    According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the
    death of the Prophet's first wife Khadijah, when Khaulah came to
    the Prophet advising him to marry again, the Prophet asked her regarding the choices she had in mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet asked the identity of the bikr (virgin), Khaulah mentioned Ayesha's name.
    All those who know the Arabic language are aware that the word bikr in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year-old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier,
    is jariyah. Bikr on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady
    without conjugal experience prior to marriage, as we understand the word "virgin" in English. Therefore, obviously a
    nine-year-old girl is not a "lady" (bikr) (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. .210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi,Beirut).
    CONCLUSION: The literal meaning of the word, bikr (virgin), in the
    above hadith is "adult woman with no sexual experience prior to
    marriage." Therefore, Ayesha was an adult woman at the time of
    her marriage.

    EVIDENCE #8. The Qur'anic Text
    All Muslims agree that the Quran is the book of guidance. So, we need to seek the guidance from the Quran to clear the smoke and confusion created by the eminent men of the classical period of Islam in the matter of Ayesha's age at her marriage. Does the Quran allow or disallow marriage of an immature child of seven years of age? There are no verses that explicitly allow such marriage. There is a verse, however, that guides Muslims in their duty to raise an orphaned child. The Quran's guidance on the topic of raising orphans is also valid in the case of our own children. The verse states: "And make not over your property (property of the orphan), which Allah had made a (means of) support for you, to the weak of understanding, and maintain them out of it, clothe them and give them good education.
    And test them until they reach the age of marriage. Then if you find them maturity of intellect, make over them their property..."
    (Quran, 4:5-6).
    In the matter of children who have lost a parent, a Muslim is ordered to (a) feed them, (b) clothe them, (c) educate them, and (d) test them for maturity "until the age of marriage" before
    entrusting them with management of finances.
    Here the Quranic verse demands meticulous proof of their intellectual and physical maturity by objective test results before the age of marriage in order to entrust their property to them.
    In light of the above verses, no responsible Muslim would hand over financial management to a seven- or nine-year-old immature girl. If we cannot trust a seven-year-old to manage financial matters, she cannot be intellectually or physically fit for marriage. Ibn Hambal (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hambal, vol.6, p. 33 and 99) claims that nine-year- old Ayesha was rather more interested in playing with toy-horses than taking up the responsible task of a wife. It is difficult to believe, therefore, that AbuBakr, a great believer among Muslims, would betroth his immature seven-year-old daughter to the 50-year-old Prophet. Equally difficult to imagine is that the Prophet would marry an immature seven-year-old girl. Another important duty demanded from the guardian of a child is to educate them. Let us ask the question, "How many of us believe that we can educate our children satisfactorily before they reach the age of seven or nine years?" The answer is none. Logically, it is an impossible task to educate a child satisfactorily before the child attains the age of seven. Then, how can we believe that Ayesha was educated satisfactorily at the claimed age of seven at the time of her marriage?
    AbuBakr was a more judicious man than all of us. So, he definitely
    would have judged that Ayesha was a child at heart and was not
    satisfactorily educated as demanded by the Quran. He would not have married her to anyone. If a proposal of marrying the immature and yet to be educated seven-year-old Ayesha came to the Prophet, he would have rejected it outright because neither the Prophet nor AbuBakr would violate any clause in the Quran.
    CONCLUSION: The marriage of Ayesha at the age of seven years would violate the maturity clause or requirement of the Quran. Therefore, the story of the marriage of the seven-year-old immature Ayesha is a myth.

    EVIDENCE #9: Consent in Marriage
    A women must be consulted and must agree in order to make a marriage valid (Mishakat al Masabiah, translation by James Robson, Vol. I, p. 665). Islamically, credible permission from women is a prerequisite for a marriage to be valid.
    By any stretch of the imagination, the permission given by an
    immature seven-year-old girl cannot be valid authorization for
    marriage. It is inconceivable that AbuBakr, an intelligent man, would take seriously the permission of a seven-year-old girl to marry a 50-year- old man.
    Similarly, the Prophet would not have accepted the permission given by a girl who, according to the hadith of Muslim, took her toys with her when she went live with Prophet.
    CONCLUSION: The Prophet did not marry a seven-year-old Ayesha because it would have violated the requirement of the valid permission clause of the Islamic Marriage Decree. Therefore, the Prophet married an intellectually and physically mature lady Ayesha.

    SUMMARY:
    It was neither an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as seven or nine years, nor did the Prophet marry Ayesha at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.
    Obviously, the narrative of the marriage of nine-year-old Ayesha by Hisham ibn `Urwah cannot be held true when it is contradicted by many other reported narratives. Moreover, there is absolutely no reason to accept the narrative of Hisham ibn `Urwah as true when other scholars, including Malik ibn Anas, view his narrative while in Iraq, as unreliable. The quotations from Tabari, Bukhari and Muslim show they contradict each other regarding Ayesha's age. Furthermore, many of these scholars contradict themselves in their own records. Thus, the narrative of Ayesha's age at the time of the marriage is not reliable due to the clear contradictions seen in the works of classical scholars of Islam.
    Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the
    information on Ayesha's age is accepted as true when there are
    adequate grounds to reject it as myth. Moreover, the Quran rejects the marriage of immature girls and boys as well as entrusting them with responsibilities.

    T.O. Shanavas is a physician based in Michigan. This article first
    appeared in The Minaret in March 1999.
    © 2001 Minaret
    Extracted 09/06/02 from The Minaret was not married until


    Above all that I would like to add that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was twenty-five years of age, then he and his wife lived in
    happiness and fidelity for twenty-four years, until her death when he was fourty-nine. Only between the age of fifty and his death at sixty- two did Prophet Mohammed take other wives, only one of whom was a virgin, and most of them were taken for dynastic and political reasons. Certainly the Prophet's record was better than the head of the Church of England, Henry VIII."
    Geoffrey Parrinder, Mysticism in the World's Religions (New York:
    Oxford University Press, 1976, pg. 121)
    In addressing the issue of Prophet Prophet Mohammed's polygynous marriages, it is important to remember several points.
    First, Semitic culture in general and Arab practice in particular
    permitted polygyny. It was common practice in Arabian society,
    especially among nobles and leaders. Though less common, polygyny was also permitted in biblical and even in postbiblical Judaism. From Abraham, David and Solomon down to the reformation period, polygyny was practised by some Jews. While Jewish law changed after the middle Ages due to the influence of Christian rule, for Jews under Islamic rule, polygyny remained licit, though it was not extensively practised.
    Second, during the prime of his life, Prophet Mohammed remained
    married to one woman, Khadija.
    Third, it was only after her death that he took a number of wives.
    Fourth, Prophet Mohammed's use of the special dispensation from God to exceed the limit of four wives imposed by the Quran, occurred only after the death of Khadija. Moreover, most of the eleven marriages had political and social motives. As was customary for Arab chiefs, many were political marriages to cement alliances. Others were marriages to the widows of his companions who had fallen in combat
    and were in need of protection. Remarriage was difficult in a society that emphasised the importance of virgin marriages.
    Aisha was the only virgin that Prophet Prophet Mohammed married and the wife with whom he had the closest relationship.
    Fifth, Prophet Prophet Mohammed's teachings and actions, as well as the Qur'anic message, improved the status of all women - wives, daughters, mothers, widows and orphans.
    Talk of the political and social motives behind many of the Prophet's marriages should not obscure the fact that Prophet Mohammed was attracted to women and enjoyed being with his wives. To deny this would contradict the Islamic outlook on marriage and sexuality, found in both revelation and Prophetic traditions, which emphasises the importance of family and views sex as a gift from God to be enjoyed within the bonds of marriage. The many stories about Prophet
    Mohammed's concern and care for his wives reflect these values.
    Ref: Rachel Biale, Women and Jewish Law (New York: Schocken Books,
    1984, pg. 49-51)
     
  20. EvilPoet I am what I am Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,007
    For the sake of clarity ...

    Arab:
    A member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia, whose
    language and Islamic religion spread widely throughout
    the Middle East and northern Africa from the seventh
    century.

    Palestine:
    A historical region of southwest Asia at the eastern end of the
    Mediterranean Sea and roughly coextensive with modern Israel
    and the West Bank. Occupied since pre-historic times, it has been
    ruled by Hebrews, Egyptians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, and
    Turks. A British League of Nations mandate oversaw the
    affairs of the area from 1920 until 1948, when Israel declared
    itself a separate state and the West Bank territory was occupied
    by Jordan. The West Bank was subsequently annexed (1950) by
    Jordan and occupied (1967) by Israel. In 1988 the Palestine
    Liberation Organization under Yasir Arafat declared its intention
    of forming an Arab state of Palestine, probably including the West
    Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Arab sector of Jerusalem. The
    Palestinians achieved limited self-rule in the Gaza Strip and the
    West Bank in 1993 and 1994.

    Muslim:
    A believer in or adherent of Islam.

    Source:
    Dictionary.com
    _____________________

    Islam:
    Islam is an Arabic word the root of which is Silm and Salam.
    It means among others: peace, greeting, salutation, obedience,
    loyalty, allegiance, and submission to the will of the Creator of
    the Universe.

    Islam is the last and final religion to all mankind and to all
    generations irrespective of color, race, nationality, ethnic
    background, language, or social position.

    The religion of Islam is not to be confused with Mohammedanism.
    The latter is misnomer to Islam. Muslims do not accept this name
    as it gives wrong information about Islam and Muslims.

    Source:
    Glossary of Islamic Terms and Concepts
     
  21. Bruce Wayne . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    766
    reason.

    Elbaz, I am not looking for an argument. I don´t like religous discussions for they often prove worthless. But you saying he is not a great man says more about you than about him.
    Do me and yourself a favor. Try to find an (islamic) biography and read it. You will see Utopia.
     
  22. Here are some other viewpoints:
    Secular criticism :
    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/not_muslim.htm

    On being 2nd class citizens
    http://www.dhimmi.org
    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/view_islam.htm

    Jihad applied:
    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1:79617724/Taliban extends Holy War - jihad on Australia.html

    Living in 'dar al harb' or 'dar Islam' :
    http://bismikaallahuma.org/History/dar_islam-harb.htm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2006
  23. Muhammad's influence

    Muhammad did indeed change the world, even today his thought & religion influence over a billion people.

    On the cultural front: in art, dress, language, poetry, architecture, and (family, societal, religious & governmental) ideals & ideas. Most people that were conquered by muslim armies, converted within several generations, leaving any prior religious system in the minority (see Middle East & North Africa today).

    On the political front: within 79 years, Islamic armies had conquered from Spain, North Africa to India. At 1380 years & counting, Muhammad’s spiritual empire has out-lasted Hitler’s so-called Thousand-Year Reich (only 12 years), and every empires that harassed it. It has defeated or out-lived kingdoms & empires; Arameans, Byzantines, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Vandals, Visigoths, T’ang Chinese, European Crusaders, Italian city-states, Spanish, French, English, Dutch, Portuguese, Hindu states and the Soviet Union.

    On the historical front: only four lands have been successfully wrestled from the grip of islam; Spain (1492), the Philippines (1565), India (1750) & Israel (1948). Muslims were able to convert several warrior tribes that made an impact on the world; Seljuk & Ottoman Turks, Mongols (Moguls in India), & Tartars. Islam has remained important in thought, politics & society since 632 until the present.

    On the religious front: most of the lands that Jesus & Paul walked, have now been peopled with muslims for the last 1300 years; Palestine, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, & Lebanon.

    Jesus said, what does a man win, if he gains the world, but loses his own soul?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2006

Share This Page