# Who designed the designer?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 6, 2017.

1. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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I win in the main because I look at the situation from my opponents position.
Alex

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3. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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Me too

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But I tend to know there position.

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5. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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Art of war..know yourself know your enemy.

I always think about the other person...they seem so sure of themselves so what do they see that I may not...
But mostly I think how can they be so wrong particularly as they have had the priveldge of listening to my opinion.
Heck if I say something it must be right☺.
Alex

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7. ### kx000Valued Senior Member

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He'd just been there then then a single super rare event occurred which is creation and learning.

8. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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A single event would indeed be rare.
But there was no creation and learning is not singular.
Alex

9. ### kx000Valued Senior Member

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Could there be creation and learning if certain things like food and land formations were infinite?

10. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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The answer can be found at the bottom of a bottle of Scotch.

Creation of things less than the universe or worlds certainly is possible as we can observe such in our daily lives...and even our nightly lives...and learning continues on a daily basis and even a nightly basis...and these things are not contingent upon land or food to be infinite...Given the universe is infinite both land and food must be infinite its just that humans are confinned to one place notwithstanding some believing that everything was made for us...of course such a belief that all was created for us could reasonably be considered to be misguided and wrong.

God is a construct of the mind and can only exist in the mind and although this god exists in the mind of many that does not mean it exists in reality.

God is an unrealised wish and an unfulfilled dream and its power is only manifested by the mind that harbours the dream and the wish... limited always to the power and ability of the master of the mind holding the wish and experiencing the dream.

And given those confines this god has no ability to create worlds but perhaps can help a human to develop an idea that is within his ability combined with his access to resources.

And so the power of god is no greater than the human who can imagine his god.

Alex

11. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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opinions are like idiots, every town has at least one.

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12. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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You can't be sure of that Alex

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13. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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There are a few things that I am reasonably sure about.

The non existence of a god outside the human imagination is but one.

I am reasonably sure that fire breathing dragons only exist inside the human imagination...I am reasonably sure that science is reliable and explains the universe better than any superstitious belief from the bronze age...and I could make a list but all items in the list would share in common the fact that I reject an unsupported claim that makes extordinary speculation with no evidence whatsoever.

In all the various threads re god here and elsewhere I have not yet seen any evidence of any god and one could think that if a god is real and everything is about god we would have just so much more than superstitious speculation and unevidenced unsupported belief.

The lack of evidence leaves me feeling rather comfortable that I have not rejected something that is not remotely possible and suffers from no evidence at all in support.

Alex

14. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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Makes sense.

Fair enough. I understand 100%

How could God prove he exists? As defined by me, ie he is human.

15. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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Something that does not exist cant prove that it exists.

But lets go with the story and imagine there is this shy god who we can convince to offer a demonstration ... you want a demonstration... I think if a 500 foot tall human like figure appeared juggling 5 battleships while causing small Moons to appear and disappear ...well I think that would convince me somewhat.

Alex

16. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 69 years oldValued Senior Member

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You are soooo easily pleased

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17. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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I suppose we could settle on something that must be simple for someone capable of creating the universe and everything in it and who has a grand plan for everything.

I guess little things like no disease cancer or deformity. ..I mean if say Jan could say.."well Alex the fact we live in a world free of disease cancer and deforminty shows there is a caring god"...that would be difficult to ignore.

Or perhaps no killing and cruelty...you could expect a god to go with that approach.

Perhaps no inequity...
Perhaps no hatred...

More funny cat videos perhaps.

I know ...come up with a better story than god stuck two humans in a garden and said dont touch rather than putting up a fence on his precious tree.

Maybe a better way of fixing the original sin problem without involving virgin birth and a three day sacrifice.

Maybe to give all humans the brain power to reject baseless bronze age superstition in favour of well considered and well supported science.

But heck nothing could beat a 500 foot human look alike juggling battleships.

Alex

18. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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If a 100 mile tall, white-bearded man with a staff appeared at the North Pole, and turned day into night with the snap of his fingers, and turned the Earth inside out with a blink, then "God" would rise to pretty near the top of my list of plausible explanations.
And, it would turn out, you would have been wrong.

To be clear: I don't believe God exists, and I don't think it will ever happen - but I grant the possibility that it could happen, and that I would be shown to be wrong.

19. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 69 years oldValued Senior Member

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I am guessing any casino in the world be very happy to give you very long odds of it happening

Odds of a casino's cash reserves to $100 would be a good bet, and only because the amount of time they let you put the idea forward would be worth$100

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20. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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Nah, you would blame aliens.

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21. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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So what? Wrong that God is not human because you've made something up and said, "You would be proved wrong?". I defined a God, and got nonsense back.

22. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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The question was: how could you prove he exists?

It would be considered proven (at least by me) if that were to happen.

My point is that: while it is well-known that one cannot prove a negative, it is possible that a positive could be proven, given nominal circumstances.

Nobody can prove that Russell's Teapot does not orbit somewhere out beyond Mars.
But it is possible (were it to be the case) that there really is a teapot floating out there. It might be found, and would thus be proven.

IOW: it is possible to prove God exists, were he to appear.

23. ### davewhite04Valued Senior Member

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I don't think you grasped what I said. I said how could God prove he exists "based on my definition ie human"

How could he make himself into a 100ft human being?

The question... your answer: He can't prove he exists because he doesn't exist. A double negative.