Who designed the designer?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,166
    I express my concern you side step and accuse me of point scoring. Jan I sincerely say to you I am not trying to score points.
    I feel now that I am upsetting you and I really dont want to do that.
    I dont like to see you getting flustered like this so please remember we are just having a chat and no one should be upset.
    The main reason I argue with you is to give you a different style to work with.
    You are so very good at what you do and in time you will be able to manage folk like me.
    I hope to lead you to enlightenment.
    Yes clearly you are correct Jan humans are entirely responsible for the cruelty killing and suffering and unfortunately it is such a part of the world we call it natural.
    I can Jan but perhaps it is best I keep my observations to myself.
    Let me put it as nice as I possibly can.
    The scriptures were all written by men.
    That seems reasonable Jan.
    I am glad you explained it clearly for me Jan.
    I will deal with my confusion in my own way.
    I should not trouble you with my trivial concerns.
    I am sorry Jan I should not have called your excuse lame and next time I will keep such opinions to myself.
    I feel terrible to have upset you so much.
    I dont feel I should suggest what would be better, my opinion does not matter.
    I dont know Jan maybe I am just too soft hearted for this world. I care for others and animals and I find the current world not a very nice place.
    I just wish it could be different.
    I often wonder how other planets are...I hope there are places where it is different and where kindness is the rule.
    Atheists tend to have compassionate non judgemental standards.
    Being kind is my first thing and from there all good things flow.
    My desire to see kindness rule the world.
    I should not have said that Jan in reflection I can see how upsetting it must be for you.
    The scriptures were written by men.
    Yes I can see why you could see things that way.
    Yes I think you are right Jan.
    No you know that is not how I feel,
    but it was terrible of me to throw out this crumb knowing you would jump on it.
    I wont exploit the advantage I had in mind simply so you know its not about scoring points.
    But lighten up and laugh with me at how I got you with that one.
    See you are getting upset with me and you should not, staying calm is necessary to reach enlightenment.
    I think I understand Jan you think because I am an athiest that I am incapable of holding any standard of morality or rules to live by.
    I assure you that I am enlightened and have a moral standard probably higher than any religion can deliver and I guess that would be hard to understand if you are just a theist. Its different thats all but certainly not less moral as you presumably believe.
    Its ok I understand where you are coming from but suggest you could think more positively about how others may manage morality, and certainly dont think atheists are devoid of high standards of compassion.
    We probably are more focused on kindness than theists.
    You should not worry about point scoring it really does not come into things...you are not losing here so remember that.
    Of course you are right Jan but dont forget I laid a bit of a trap for you here and I hope you can forgive me.
    You got me there Jan.
    I know what the problem is but I dont wish to upset you by stating it again.
    If you are happy to blame humans why should I suggest we focus on anything else.
    The Gods invented by men.
    I will see what I can do one can always improve rather than simply saying I do ok.
    You are upset Jan if we were point scoring you would have dropped a bundle there.
    Lets move on if you want to learn about evolution I really think reading a text book would be a good start.
    But if you dont want to know about it thats ok.
    I dont know what to say so I dont upset you more Jan.
    I am an astronomer before I am an atheist its not a big deal for me.
    It goes against kindness.
    Sorry I was trying to help with your style and help you maintain credibility.
    I forgot the question sorry.
    I am sorry I should not ask questions I know you can not answer.
    Free will is what it is and if theists are happy with it so be it.
    I should not have tried to make you feel uncomfortable but I certainly did not intend to upset you so much Jan.
    I only use it because I thought you would like it Jan as it sounds sortta spiritual.
    Well may you ask Jan to be honest I think the idea is crap really and a dishonest attempt to sneek religion into science class.
    Well you scored a few points there Jan as I am lost for a reply.
    Great effort.
    Alex
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    4,166
    QUOTE="Jan Ardena, post: 3495360, member: 4260"]Don't dodge my questions, and find out[/QUOTE]
    Jan your questions are presented to trip up your opponents and we both know that I am right but I am interested to explore past that tactic and see what other tactics you use.

    Further I am really sorry that I have upset you so much and you somehow percieve that you are losing points, there are no points awarded here, you are not losing.
    It was no fair of me to raise free will as I know it must sound ridiculous even to you but still you must defend it and even with your skill that is near impossible.
    It will be next year in an hour and a half so I take this opportunity to wish you a happy new year Jan.
    Again sorry I hit a nerve.
    Alex
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    Alex, why do you play these trivial games?
    It just seems like a waste of time.
    Oh well!

    Jan.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    4,166
    Because I have free will to play trivial games and waste time.

    It is 2018 so I speak to you from the future.

    Alex
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    Then why posit that it is false?

    Jan.
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    4,166
    I thought I posted the following or similar but clearly something went wrong.
    The general observation was...
    I dont think you seem to understand communism.
    The main ingredient of communism is revolution and that ingredient will not be found in your examples.
    Further communism is about equal distribution of wealth not a rob Peter pay Paul affair which is probably more related to capitalism tham any other political economic system.

    Moreover given my difficulty in accepting your use of communism it is difficult to understand the point you attempt to make.
    Alex
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's an observation, not a "posit"
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    How have you observed it?

    Jan.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,649
    By looking.

    How did you get fooled into thinking this: "It is man that transgresses the laws, not God."? All you had to do was look, and see otherwise.
     
  13. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,514
    ^^^
    Gods were/are made in the image of man.

    <>
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    13,514
    ^^^
    IF there is an omnipotent god, it obviously does allow killing & cruelty.
    It is absurd to blame puny humans for what an omnipotent god does.

    <>
     
  15. Michael 345 Next for NT Anzac Day 2018 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,964
    True and that's why they have all the defects of man and then some

    What would you suspect was going through the mind of of the person who dreamt up a swan who seduced the wife of a king?

    Caution PG +18 graphic content

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leda_and_the_Swan

    Arrrrh the good ol days

    When men were gods and women were game for anything

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    What did you look at?
    Please stop dodging this.
    Or else I have no choice but to conclude that you're lying.

    Again, I don't know what you're looking at.
    Answer it, or come of it.

    jan.
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    So you're happy to blame God for man's stupidity, yet don't mention God who gives the ability of scientific knowledge to mankind? You'd sooner give man (scientists) that credit, would you?
    This is why your claim is childish nonsense.

    jan.
     
  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,514
    ^^^
    It is a matter of power. IF there is an omnipotent god, it has the power & humanity does not. IF it created humanity, it is responsible for what humanity is.
    An intelligent person did not make themself intelligent & a stupid person did not make themself stupid.

    Most of your post is unrelated to what I said.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    Who says humanity does not have the power to be good?
    Are you saying that every single human being is evil? Or do you think there are people who exist, who are not evil? Are you forces to rape, kill and torture, or can you decide not to, if you don't want to?
    Let's say you're not an evil person. Do you think it is possible for most other humans to also not be evil?

    jan.
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    No doubt you will not, and cannot back this claim up, so it would be pointless to ask you to.
    But this response will serve as a reminder that you are blatantly making stuff up, and acting as though it is true.
     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    13,514
    ^^^
    I cannot believe you do not understand what I said.

    <>
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    13,514
    ^^^
    You make claims about others which are a reflection of you.

    <>
     
  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,451
    Then please make it more comprehensible.

    Jan
     

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