whites more evolved?

But you also said this: "But certainly the orchestra is a fantastically more advanced medium of music that you'd find in nig culture."

And I also spotted a reference to "real instruments".

Electronic instruments are just as real as any violin, cello, or any other orchestral instrument. Saying otherwise betrays your bias.

We are all ethnocentric. I think it is the innate default position for humans, probably for sociobiological reasons. You just have to realize that it is the ultimate root of a preference of one form of music over another.

 

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Clever.

And am I a fan of rap? I'm a fan of good music. Whether that's Johnny Cash, the Rolling Stones, Beethoven, or Biggie Smalls, I don't care.

Anyways, I'm still waiting for the part where you establish rap is a degenerate influence on our culture, rather than something you personally dislike. What's your justification to hate rap? Do you think it's misogynistic, maybe, or do you think it glorifies violence, or what? I mean, beyond the fact that rappers are predominantly black. And I know ... I know, you're not a racist. You're a racialist. Or, a culturalist. Or, whatever cute euphemism you'll have tomorrow.

Hiding behind a preference for "real" instruments and an aversion to electronic sounds is bullshit, of course, since both the blues and jazz rely on "real" instruments, and are generally free of electronic sounds. Of course, since they're not generally free of non-whites, you can't dig 'em. C'mon ... when you single out a predominantly black genre of music for your hatred, while glorifying an almost entirely white one, and claim to be a culturalist ...

And please, do list some of those names.

 

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I feel somewhat sad that my reference to real instruments was interpretted so badly. I mean 'real' as in non-electronic. I love electronic sounds - I love the prodigy (as mentioned previously in another thread). I don't think we are really at a disagreement on this front.

With regard to rap (especially gansta rap), I feel it promotes lethargy, drug abuse and fock da po-leese attitudes. Of course, I could be mistaken and in maybe it's the other way round (i.e. having that alignment promotes rap music choice).

You have 'got' me on the culturalist front. It's difficult to put a tone of voice accross in forums, but I place a very sarcastic one on this matter in real life. Ok, I admit I am extremely prejudice against blacks - but I acknowledge that it's purely because of poverty and culture - nothing else. My peers call this inteligent racism! Obviously it is just plain un-PC.

Name a few names? ooo... Tupac, Puffy, DMX, Snoop, Eminem, Vanilla Ice(!), NWA (too much attitude), ICP etc... I'm sure I'd recognise countless more if mentioned.

Natually I have ommited people like Faithless, who are at least a little more acceptable.

Again, with what criteria do I make this statement on? Just look at one, organisation, huge variety, massive polyphonic capability... I thought that statement was undeniable.

 

Well stated.

 

Yes, yes, but classical is clearly more advanced than rap!

That's it - no more on this matter please. I don't want to hear any more of this racistist banter.

 

look 'evolved whitey' there isn't ONLY rap. many forms of non-white music exists, which is incredibly complex. i love some classical music too, but HATE this 'we are more evolved than you' bolloks. it truly suks. no REAL musicians would even humour you!...wel, errrm maybe they would. laughing secretly at your naive arrogance.

byw, can you rap?.....hehe, would LOVe to hear it

 

Lethargy? How's that? As for drug abuse ... shit, have you ever heard of the Stones, or the Velvet Underground? And fock da po-leese ... you heard of Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan?

That's eight artists you listed, and three of 'em (Puffy, Vanilla Ice, and ICP) are pure shit, on account of their no-talent ways, and in the case of Puffy and Vanilla Ice, using samples to make themselves famous. As for the other five ... that's such a small, unrepresentative sample of rap music. And that's cool, 'cause you're not a rap fan, so why would you listen to anything that's not mainstream? That being said, saying that you hate rap because you dislike elements of mainstream rap is like me saying I hate Hollywood 'cause they keep making movies with Seth Green. Or, for that matter, saying I hate classical 'cause Hitler was a fan of Wagner's.

What makes an organized art form inherently superior? Nothing, beyond your preference. I mean, I could just as easily argue that jazz, or the blues, or freestyles, are more impressive because of their spontaenity.

Variety? Okay, sure, that's a good thing ... and if you think there's no variety in rap music, then you haven't listened to nearly enough of it. Again, you're not a fan of the genre, so I understand that, but that doesn't make your opinion justified.

"Massive polyphonic capability?" Well, thanks for establishing that dozens of musicians can put together more sounds than four or five, but how does this make the music superior? I mean, by that argument, a twelve course meal is inherently superior than a nice, juicy slab o' steak.

 

I remember reading a chapter in my Psychology book about intelligence. They mentioned that 52 researchers found that the bell curve of IQ scores among whites centered around 100, whereas for blacks, 85. Different subgroups of Hispanics were in between those numbers.

So if by more evolved, you mean more intelligent, then yes, whites are more evolved.

 

Assuming that an IQ test is a reliable indicator of intelligence ...

 

Whenpeople moved to colder climates they had to start developing some defensive mechanisms, like designing and wearing protective clothing, shelters, means of travel like boats and ships, hunting in less prolific areas, and tools for all the above.
This may have put the lighter-skinned people ahead in tool and weapon development, just out of necessity, and this shows in European's large scale attempts to conquer the world with their advanced ships and weapons.
Having better tecnology doesn't imply intellectual superiority. Any healthy human baby from any part of any society, put in the best of circumstances, should develop about the same.
I've read that man's present capabilities of our brain was reached about 100,000 years ago. Any info on any of this?

 

I thought it was more like 40,000 years ago.

As for IQ tests, I found this from here: Nationmaster.com

107: Hong Kong
106: South Korea
105: Japan
104: Taiwan (ROC)
104: Singapore
102: Austria
102: Germany
102: Italy
102: Netherlands
101: Sweden
101: Switzerland
100: Belgium
100: China (PRC)
100: New Zealand
100: U.K.
99: Hungary
99: Poland
98: Australia
98: Denmark
98: France
98: Norway
98: United States
97: Canada

One explanation for higher IQ for some countries is that the high difficulty of learning how to write the language (like japanese) increases the learning ability.

 

Even I know this is fallicious. Certain variables had not been isolated, such as education.

So it's not the only culprit, but that's no excuse.

Don't get me wrong, I have heard a lot of rap and include in my definition many forms including various works by the Beastie Boys, Cyprus Hill and lil' kim. I'm sorry you took off on old Vanilla, he was thrown in as a joke.

You got me there. It's just personal preference.

And what sauce will you be having with your steak, sir? Perhaps a side of potatoes, fried onions, mushrooms and a glass of wine? What if that steak were one of those courses?
The instrument [orchestra] is only as good as the person using it, if the twelve course meal is inferior then that it is the fault of the composer.

Complexity, working on harmony.

If ever there was an intellectual quality in music, then surely it would be this? Even if what is harmonious is subjective.

 

About 2 years ago I read that a psychology proffesor of the university of Toronto published a paper where he put the intelligence of the different races in the following order.

Jews
Orientals (Chinese,Japanese)
Caucasians
Negroes

Ouch; that puts me second from the bottom. I'm not saying if I agree or disagree with his paper. But it strikes me, that apparently they still have free spech up in Canada. Because the guy is still employed, in spite of the flak that came in from some of the public.

 

Right, but it doesn't explain why you're focusing solely on rap.

Every single artist you've listed, with the sorta exception of ICP, is mainstream. Nothing wrong with that, and again, you don't like the genre, so it's to be expected, but that doesn't absolve your opinion of being shallow.

Missed the point of my analogy. All I'm saying is that complexity isn't inherently good.

 

I didn't miss the point, I understand that complexity is not inherently good. "if the twelve course meal is inferior then that it is the fault of the composer,"

Hitler had a thing or two to say about the Jews in his book Mein Kampf. He mentioned that most knowledge and understanding is passed down through the generations and new thinking rarely occrus. He put the Jew's 'cunning' nature down to a thousand years cultural standstill. I don't necessarily agree with him, but eduation and upbringing are critical in the development of a mind, me thinks.

 

(((((MODERATOR? WHERE IS MY POST? HAVE YOU CENSORED IT?.....))

African-American music has been such an influence on American music generally, that it would be nothing without its influence
its movements also hav e hepled white men to be able to get in touch with their bodies again which, due to over emphasis on cerebreality, including music, had stiffened, ...the brain having become disconnected from the body. A good example of this revolution has been in most of our lifetimes. remember Elvis 'the Pelvis? well, let me remind you that tightarsed mainstream white amerikee was so divorced from sensual rythym that the main television company tried to censor Elvis' body from the waist down, because he swivelled his hips. you know of corse where Elvis got his inspiration from. YIP, AfroAmercian culture
So, Africans taught you whites to get in contact with your bodies. no small thing

another poster here said something really charming and intelligent like "Orchastrative music is more evolved from nig culture"...i find that very offensive. and if i find it was my post that got moderated and thats not regarded as offensive, i will be seriously pissed off
i am not saying he shouldn't have freedom of speech. but if THAt offensive remark's allowed, where's MY post

if i've mis-seen it. excuse me.

 

Are you sure you posted, Duendy? F-ups can happen. A mod would have PM'ed if they did.

What I actually said was.

I for one do not like random use of the word evolve and I would not have said that orchestral music came from n culture.

As I have said elsewhere I use the 'n' word only to refer to a particular sterotype.

I am fully aware of what modern culture has descended from Af-Ams.

That offends me.

-----------------

There are physiological differences between each race and it follows that some will be better at others at various tasks. What experimentation has be done, however, is another question.

I would be interested to see such research. Obviously, I do not expect all of type A to be better than all of type B (with respect to set criteria) but certainly if attributes were normally distributed I would expect the mean and sd to be different.

 

ok, so we all can see even YOU can get offended, yeah? so this must mean you would have empathy with others you may knowingly or unknowlingly offend. am i right?

so why them 'me' use such an offensive term as 'nig culture' not even being arsed to use the full denigrating term 'nigger'...why do you think that isn't offensive?

secondly, why ARe you offended for me to imply that from ALL the horrs inflicted on Black people from the white people that they couldn't have given some fundamental 'gift'...

or let me put it in another way. if i said the French influence with food has greatly influenced anglo-saxon appraoaches to food, would THAt offend you. dont we all have some values to share

whay were you offended?

 

It would be nothing without its influence? What the hell?

Africans taught us to be one with ours bods? I don't for an instant think that that's true, btw.

I can shorten the 'full denigrating' term nigger -> nig as it's much easier to say. That means nothing.