Where is YOUR EVIDENCE ?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Theoryofrelativity, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    5,595

    stop nit picking

    we as individuals in comparison to the entire universe are minute, losing one of us is not akin to a human losing both kidneys!

    the fact remains that without me, the universe will go on, however if the universe does not go on, neither will I.
     
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  3. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

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    Alright. Enough of this bollocks.

    1) In QM all there are are observations. These observations are so repeatable and predictable that QM, especially QED, is considered the most successful description of a facet of nature ever formulated. QM states hard facts about the observations, not about the ultimate nature of the quantum "objects".

    2) "Admittedly most of the Atom as science knows it is myth, superstition and speculation"

    Complete bollocks. Tell this to quantum physicists, chemists, and particle physicists who make a living based on the highly known and deterministic nature of atoms.

    Bollocks.
     
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  5. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Superluminal, if you read the full post you'd realise the statement implies that not everything is known and over time more is learnt. Any scientist concluding that he knows everything about atoms currently would be the one talking bollocks, as there is still alot of postulation.
     
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  7. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

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    10,717
    And re the last few pages about god. What a load of bollocks (my new favorite word). All any of you have to say about it is crap like "so how do you know that god is not the poorly percieved sum of all the parts of the universe... blah, blah?".

    Well, we don't. Maybe the ultimate point is really this; Some of us look at the universe and come to informed conclusions about it based on solid observations and experiments, and contribute to our real understanding of it

    Others engage in ancient mumbo-jumbo wordplay about god(s) and how we go about inferring "it" and speculating wildly about what god might be or "represent", thus becoming just one more of a billion wasted minds with zero new to say on the subject.

    Theists remind me of a bunch of 90 year-olds with senile dementia sitting around playing the same game of canasta every day and never realizing the cards are always the same.

    Oh, and you theists? You really are a bunch of egotistical, arrogant, self-righteous gits. You claim there is a god with a level of evidence that you'd laugh at if it came form a salesman at your door. You cling to your various culturally determined or chosen religions with the conviction that your version or god is the absolute truth. How transparently arrogant.

    Well, guess what. We atheists have you beat on the humility scale by about a billion to one. We know what we know based on tangible eviodence. We freely admit to what we don't know and never claim absolute truth for anything. We know truth is a work in progress. Unlike the immutable (stagnant) truths of your religions.

    I for one am sick of coddling the overwhelming arrogance of theists. Admit what you have. A culturally propagated fantasy that gives you a modicum of comfort.

    Is there a god? Who knows? And with the self admitted nature of this "god" idea being what it is (beyond testing, nature, observation, human understanding...) why would anyone with anything more important to do than watch paint drying give a shit?

    What new do you have to say about your god of choice that hasn't been said or thought ten thousand years ago? Nothing.

    Think about this. If you weren't arrogant, egotistical and self righteous, you'd easily be able to admit that there might not be a god of any kind and that science could easily have the most accurate description of the cosmos to date.

    You all argue fervently that you know there's a guiding force behind the universe. The gall of such a position is unbelieveable. Have some humility. You don't know anything of substance about your god idea. Just as we atheists don't know anything of substance about the ultimate nature of the cosmos. We admit it. Give it a try. It's freeing.

    Oh, and incase I forgot, no, we don't know for sure there's no god. Now, do your usual trick of jumping from that to the conclusion that there must be one. Trees and pretty flowers and eyeballs are good evidence for a god. Go for it.
     
  8. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

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    10,717
    Jseus H. christ on a stick. I said nothing of the sort. What's your problem? You said:

    "Admittedly most of the Atom as science knows it is myth, superstition and speculation"

    And I said that's bullshit. I did NOT say our understanding of the atom was complete by any means, just that what we currently know is NOT
    "myth, superstition and speculation".

    What a stupid thing to say on your part.
     
  9. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    24,066
    Well said.
     
  10. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    Great line.
     
  11. perplexity Banned Banned

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    1,179
    Good question. Let us see what I mean before we consider it.

    In the instance of gravity or god I am thinking in the first instance about the purpose it serves, not so much in overt linguistic terms but rather in emotional terms.

    I often ask people if they have ever sat on a jury in a court of law. The experience teaches the impossibility of divorcing the truth from the person you hope to hear it from. The scientific approach worries me because the assumption of objectivity as a possibility is so flagrantly false, dishonest, unscientific in terms of evidence. When, evidently, there are so many different versions of the truth to choose from the naive hope to rely upon the objectivity of anybody falls at the first hurdle, at face value at least.

    For me there is no more proof of gravity than there is of god; it just happens to be a name that people agree to give to identify a perceived effect, valid to the extent but only that the extent that it is perceived.

    I have not yet studied this, but I'd be fascinated to review the public reactions to Newton when his version of gravity was first proposed, to see what the non believers had to say because the concept had not yet made sense to them.

    --- Ron.
     
  12. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    24,066
    A court is not science.

    Newton believed his laws proved the existance of God.
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    19,125
    Your argument falls flat before the first hurdle. Science does not introduce versions of truths, it simply tries to explain phenomena, which can be made useful, like your computer and internet connection, which I'm sure, subjectively you could argue doesn't exist, but objectively can't since you use it most every day.

    Objectively, you could call gravity, 'God,' but how is that useful to anyone, especially when you've labeled everything else 'God?' Subjectively, you could claim gravity doesn't exist, until you fall down flat along with your argument.

    Fine, then subjectively and objectively, all effects in the universe, to you, are god. That would leave you and your ideas as useful as tits on a board, so to speak, since you would be unable to explain anything, and would find everything utterly useless.

    You can see here almost daily those reactions from theists who label everything 'God.'

    Perhaps a mirror would give you the best vantage point.
     
  14. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    13,101
    Notice you also tend to cut the segment of a sentence to the size that you like to comment about, you miss the entire point with your paraphrasing. Okay I shouldn't of used the word "Most", change it the word "Some" and suddenly the entire sentence is different, is that good enough for your peer-review, or would you like to continue acting an Ass?
     
  15. perplexity Banned Banned

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    1,179
    Of course it does.

    by introducting versions of truths.

    huh?

    huh?

    Straw man.

    Why?

    Do you deny free will?

    Not my ideas.
    I am merely attempting to evaluate other people's ideas.

    huh?

    --- Ron.
     
  16. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,717
    I'll stick with being an ass thank you. Changing one word does nothing to make your post any more rational. Science says what it knows by observation and experiment about the atom. Maybe what you know is superstition and myth. Why would you say such a thing as (full quote):

     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Then, it isn't science, since science demands falsifiable explanations.

    Nope. You made the claim.

    If I did, I'd be a theist. What does that have to do with your claims?

    How can you do that when you've labeled everything 'God?'
     
  18. perplexity Banned Banned

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    1,179
    Nobody labelled everything 'God'.

    That is the straw man.

    Don't be so silly.

    --- Ron.
     
  19. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    13,101
    Superluminal,
    If you're going to be an Ass, then you'll have to look elsewhere for your carrots.
     
  20. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

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    10,717
    Good, solid reply. Thanks.
     
  21. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    5,595
    If consciousness is an effect of biology and not deliberate is it akin to a shadow being the effect of an object blocking the suns light.

    Remove the object or the sun and the shadow does not exist

    So if we remove one the criteria required for consciousness then consciousness should cease to exist and be created again (new) when the criteria removed is re-instated.

    But that's not what happens is it?

    Meanwhile:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/cgi-bin...ed.cgi?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=0975991477


    "Editorial Review:

    Book Description:
    The Biology of Belief is a groundbreaking work in the field of New Biology. Author Dr. Bruce Lipton is a former medical school professor and research scientist. His experiments, and those of other leading-edge scientists, have examined in great detail the processes by which cells receive information. The implications of this research radically change our understanding of life. It shows that genes and DNA do not control our biology; that instead DNA is controlled by signals from outside the cell, including the energetic messages emanating from our positive and negative thoughts. Dr. Lipton's profoundly hopeful synthesis of the latest and best research in cell biology and quantum physics is being hailed as a major breakthrough showing that our bodies can be changed as we retrain our thinking."

    It says here that "DNA is controlled by signals from outside the cell"

    This is what I was trying to express in this thread and evolution threads (paraphrasing) 'genetic variation being driven by our environment' rather than the genes changing randomly by themselves and happenning to be successful or not.

    If the scientists above consider that thoughts can change DNA then my question regarding why an organism 'wants' to live are now valid are they not? The fact that DNA is controlled not by biology but from signals outside the cell demonstrates that afterall genetic variation is about 'progress' and not merely a random process.
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    19,125
    You did.

    "I was concerned with the quality of the label, not the quantity.

    Have as many as you like, it all the same to me."
     
  23. perplexity Banned Banned

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    1,179
    As if that would equate to "labeled everything God?"

    I am disappointed....


    "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place"

    (George Bernard Shaw)


    --- Ron.
     

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