What's the worst thing one can do to hamper one's spiritual advancement?

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by lightgigantic, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. SheDevil Banned Banned

    Messages:
    86
    you will note that those that boast they are spiritually enlightened, will dislike this explanation. 'Not being special' does not meet with the expectations that accompany the title 'spiritually enlightened'. Titles like this are all about presuming you are special

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Realisation you are but a gnat in the grand scheme of things is too humbling to then consider the adoption of a title!
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Sometimes they are merely an exercise in argumentation.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    The worst thing to drag down one's spiritual advancement? To have contempt for the lower realms and everyone in it, especially the animals. I have learned much more about spiritual values from non-humans and those who are in the "lower strata" of humanity than I have from anyone who was high and mighty.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    The worst thing would be to know the truth of existence. And the truth is that there is no spirituality. Humans are neuro biochemical machines with energy within them to pass on to the next generation and to unite during love. That is all. There are no Gods. There is no purpose but to live.
     
  8. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,502
    Fortunately for me nothing forces me to believe that.
     
  9. Ragnarok Hang em High.... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    149
    Do large amounts of acid.....
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    Messages:
    16,330
    the problem is that without distinctions between higher and lower (even in the case of determining who is more advanced in realizing the extent of their gnat-like existence before god/ the universe) it becomes impossible for a person to lodge enquiry, which is the dynamic on which the transmission of knowledge operates

    Its not clear what evidences you have assessed to determine the nature of this truth - at the very least it is not evidenced by neurology or science
     
  11. SheDevil Banned Banned

    Messages:
    86

    You are a gnat, I am a gnat, those that have yet to realise they are gnat's are 'special'. Only these 'special' beings lodge enquiries into their level of specialness.

    When you become less 'special', you can instead spend your time considering what is special about all those you previously considered to be less special than you.
     
  12. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    We are special, though. The human neocortex is the most densely ramified and complexified structure in the known universe.
     
  13. SheDevil Banned Banned

    Messages:
    86
    and what is 'known' is all there is to know is it?

    I think not
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    It's highly unlikely that there are humans on other planets, that makes us special.
     
  15. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,848
    not accepting change


    peace
     
  16. Sauna Banned Banned

    Messages:
    763
    Shove off special SheDevil, I'm the insignificant gnat around here, and I know a lot less than you do.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    Messages:
    16,330
    I agree that humility is the first principle of knowledge, however I do contend that humility does not remove the necessity/convenience of learning from someone who is more humble than oneself, which brings in a dichotomy of giver/receiver - after all if one realizes that one is a gnat, what is the problem with being submissive to someone else for a beneficial end (unless one thought that one was a special gnat)
     
  18. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Hi,

    Whilst I agree with you in principal regarding humility, you arguments about lack of specialness are self defeating from the start;

    Conventionally it is understood that there are people with spiritual attainment (special) and those with out (not special). You are then turning the above around and saying that those who have spiritual attainment are those who consider themselves to be not special and in fact ordinary, and those who do consider themselves ‘special’ do not actually have any spiritual attainment.

    But in either case you still you have the same situation…. You have set up two groups of people; some who have spiritual attainment and some who dont, all you have done is changed the word special from one group to another, the special become ordinary and vice versa, but you still have an ‘us and them’ situation. So all you are doing is playing with words, everyone who says “I am ordinary and worthless” become ‘special’ and those who do not say this become ordinary and less special. Some people still remain more special than others.

    Your ideas smack more of Roman Catholicism’s “we are all worthless sinners”, than any eastern philosophy. In Taoism, although the sage is a perfect example of humility and shuns public recognition, he is still considered a very special person and guards his lack of attachment very carefully and with great skill.

    Secondly, the very act of your posting on this forum with your answer to the question posed, presumes that you believe you have something to impart that others do not know. It presumes that you consider you can provide answers to others in respect to spiritual advancement questions, in the form of “we are not special”. If you really did consider yourself to be ordinary and no different from any one else, it would never occur to you to offer such advice to others.

    It is because humility is a spiritual attainment, and those that possess it are special, that this confusion arises.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2006
  19. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    And here, after saying that none of us are special. You advise that time is spent considering what is special….. etc. Well if none of us really are special then this exercise is pointless as no matter how much one considers, there would be no specialness to be found in anyone.


    A better approach is honesty.

    Sometimes we must recognise that we are less developed in certain areas than other people, there is nothing wrong with this and we can learn from others when necessary.

    Sometimes we are more developed in certain areas than others, there is nothing wrong with this either and others can learn from us.

    Humility is a quality that we can be more or less developed in. Some may have a very developed sense of humility (they are special in their humility) and can therefore help others in this respect. We need to try to be honest about what we are good at (special) and also where we are lacking, we should go to others for help when we are struggling and help others when they seem to be struggling. We just need to accept who we are, and where we are.


    False humility can be just as harmful as false pride.
     
  20. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    There is a particular paradox with attaining humility. (as Light Gigantic has already suggested)

    And that is, that as soon as we recognise that humility is a good quality and should be cultivated and has been attained, it starts to defeat the humility that has been achieved with thoughts such as “I am a good person because I am humble”.

    How is this overcome....?

    In the more advanced stages of spiritual development the idea of humility is itself an obstruction, in further stages still, the thought of attainment of any kind is an obstruction, so eventually we leave behind all concepts.

    I would guess that most of us who are on this forum have not yet reached the stage when all concepts are left behind , so for now it can just be accepted that humility is a good quality to cultivate and do the best we can with that.

    Buddha uses the analogy of a number of rafts to cross a river. Humility is raft that can get us so far, but in the end it becomes a hindrance and must be left behind for another raft. In the same way other Buddhist concepts such as emptiness are also rafts which ca be taken so far then be left. In the end even Buddha and Buddha’s teaching must be left behind as (possibly) the last raft on the crossing.

    In a similar way some of the Hindu darshanas use our conceptions of gods as stages of attainment. In early stages we have highly personalised and material gods... in the highest attainments we realise god as formless and withought attributes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2006
  21. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    What's the worst thing one can do to hamper one's spiritual advancement?

    Routinely visit, and participate in discussions on, sciforums.
     
  22. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

    Messages:
    6,618
    And believe that life on Earth came from intergalactic germs.
     
  23. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    I would actually tend to agree with you there... well its not the worst thing, but its certainly not particularly benificial.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!





    Interesting that noone seems to think mass murder, rape, genocide etc are especially bad for ones spiritual advancement...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     

Share This Page