whats gonna happen when that clock hits 12??? is all the electricity gonna go bye bye??? or is nothing happening? what do u all think??? that is all ------------------ dexter
I don't think it's all going to go to hell. There may be some glitches in some minor spots, but I fear the reaction of the people more than I fear my electricity going out. You know what fun jumpy, panicky mobs are. For a good reference, check out "The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street". It should be available in any Twilight Zone video collection. I plan to have my computer up and online for Y2K just to see what happens to it. Wouldn't that be a kick in the head if I had the only computer online? (Of course, that wouldn't say much for my social life!)
But in the same time you can't be sure about, for instance, some old russian missile sites, whick can have some problems with Y2K and make some automatic launches, or some old Nuclear Plants in Russia or neighbouring countries, where Y2K could cause a malfunction in security systems. I think, that it would be the best choise to celebrate the year 2000 somewhere outside of cities, where there is no electricity and phones, so you have nothing to worry about. ------------------ Danis
I have an example that I like to use when dealing with "Worldview" issues, such as .... * Consider Africa. Okay, Africa's starving. We have in the United States tons and tons of grain that go to waste each year. Not in the form of food thrown out, but huge stocks of wheat which smolder and rot in their piles, never collected, processed, or used. Theoretically, we have the food, the means to get it there, and financial resources to cover the material "loss". The accountants, however, won't say, "Go," because it's such an atypical idea of resource use. Consider, now, what everyone's afraid of: utilities fail, no food in grocery stores, ad nauseum. To hell with the computers, its the effect of the computers failing that people are scared of. So: * Y2K hits badly. We have food, fuel, roads, trucks ... everything we need. But the stuff won't go because the accountants are still waiting for the computer to spit out a legible shipping manifest .... Lastly, I would like to quote an anonymous letter-writer to the Seattle Times (I've since lost the clipping), who stated: "I'm not afraid of Y2K itself, or the immediate effect of a bad transition. What I'm afraid of is walking around my rural property and being shot by a Y2K-hillbilly who thinks I'm too close to his beef jerky." Besides, the World Trade Organization is here in Seattle ... who knows if there will be a city left here on January 1? thx, Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
Danis-If you celebrate where there is no communication, you won't know if the missiles are coming. Good idea! What you don't know can't melt you! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Actually, your thoughts on the old Russian systems are major-league valid. Does anybody know if Russia will hit 01-01-00 before we do? Where does the International Dateline fall?
As far as I'm aware, from a report issued by the Russian government. Most of the Soviet launch control systems for thier ICBM's and more medium range missiles, does not use time stamp dependant M&C software. Don't forget that the year 2000 is only applicable for us in the west and a few other countries. Places like China, most of continental Asia all have different calenders. I don't know if any of you out there have been involved with Y2K testing, were I work all problems encountered have been with setting up tests, not with the transition itself. Not to mention I'm sure the files left lurking after tests that should have been purged.
tiassa, Snore... More of the same extreme stereotyping from you... I am beginning to think that you must have very limited exposure to diverse individuals. Did you know that the AICPA discourages total reliance on computers?... That the CPA exam is still the most difficult professional exam to pass? That the exam is still taken manually? That it still takes a number of days to complete the exam? That, until very recently, even hand-held calculators were prohibited during the exam and that they are currently provided for limited use during limited sections of the exam? That professional accountants can be great problem solvers? That accountants can be very creative in providing viable business solutions in all areas, not just financial, including distribution?
Truestory: Snore yourself. Surprise me with a response. You don't like people who disagree with you, and you seem to very much dislike people who think they agree with you but won't use the proper words and terms. Furthermore, before you start making statements about my limited exposure to diverse individuals, I might remind you to shut the hell up. Why? Because I don't care what the AICPA discourages. The NRA discourages irresponsible handgun use. The CPCU discourages complex and confusing insurance policies. The DMV discourages bad driving. So I'm actually inclined to ask what you do for a living. ONLY ... only in the sense that I'm wondering how many times you've sat on a shipment because someone in accounting wanted to go over the paperwork and is suddenly out to lunch for six hours? Gee, maybe it's almost every day? Or are you an accountant? It could just be that you're not feeling to nicely about the implication that accountants are among society's least useful professionals. If it was just accounting of numbers, that's one thing. But where I live, accountants, actuarials, and financial consultants bear a heavy burden on the nature of regulation. We can build a billion dollars worth of sports arenas in this town because the money people can project a financial return. But we won't invest in career training, or even basic literacy in our schools on a large scale because it's "not economically viable" (which means "It doesn't make enough money".) Or then there are the accountants with a sense of "civic responsibility". Answer me a question here: * Take away the majority of an entity's ability to create revenue. Operate at the same production level ... perhaps even increase production? What is going to happen? Whenever we have a deep-impacting ballot initiative in Washington state, the various sides march out their accountants to publicly argue over the financial effect. The people just bought that kind of crap hook, line, and sinker, for the third time up here. In 1997, accountants said they projected an increase in insurance rates if we passed a law that prevented HMO's from blacklisting doctors. Despite the fact that these accountants were all employed by the biggest insurers in the state, the people bought their pitch. In 1998, accountants actually managed to convince the voters that ending affirmative action would "improve the economy"; everyone I know who voted for that initiative thinks they were voting to "improve the economy"; the only effect we've seen in the first year is a 20-33% reduction in minority enrollment in public colleges in the state. Now, in 1999, the accountants convinced the voters to throw out the state's primary revenue device. In the effort to eliminate registration fees, the accountants have set up a financial situation which only a state income tax can fix. Over half the budget gone. Boom. Dead. Gee, who gets paid to figure out income taxes? Would it be accountants? Truestory, your pie-in-the-sky intrigues me. I actually can't tell if you're arguing with me just to argue, or if you actually have something for the accountants. They're no worse off than the rest of us, morally. But their job revolves around a fiction--money. And that lust for fiction sometimes impedes human function. Stereotype that. Extreme, extreme, extreme. It seems that you're going to call me extreme until I renounce the last drop of freedom in my soul and submit to your oh-so wise ways. Bite your extreme and shove your stereotypes in your ear. Funny, someone who thinks there's only ONE WAY to live life, giving me crap about diversity. I'd say you're a laugh-riot, but you're actually not funny at all. But that's okay. Accountants don't like funny people unless they're making money being funny. Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
Tiassa, it sounds like you have a verry bad view of accountants. Thier are not useless, they serve a verry important role. I work for a small company and do some of the accounting (amongst all most every thing eles Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) and if someone didn't do it the rest of the company would fall apart. Just like other valuable positions in a company, like say the janitor, you need to have the work done or the sh*t hits the fan maybe not today but at the end of the month it will. Now as for Y2K. Well what can be said that hasn't allready been said by someone eles? ------------------ The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world -Max Born
tiassa, Sounds to me that perhaps you are projecting some of your limited thinking onto me. You see tiassa, unlike you, I like all people, regardless of their beliefs or the team they play for or the industry they have chosen to work for or the profession they have chosen for their career... What I am objecting to here, is your habit of constantly lumping individuals under mass "labels" for the purpose of negatively slamming an entire segment of society. It comes across as extremely prejudicial... I like you tiassa... What I object to is your attempts to "degrade" entire groups of individuals through extreme negative stereotyping because they happen to believe something different than you, because they play for a team that you don't root for, because they work for a particular segment of business or government that you deem to be "unworthy" or who have chosen a professional career which you also deem to be "unworthy". I am happy to say that my career has exposed me to all different types of organizations at various levels and has exposed me to many diverse individuals within various professions. I have worked with a sole-proprietorship, a partnership, a small corporation, a medium-sized corporation, a large corporation and government (not necessarily in that order). My experience is with both for-profit and not-for-profit organizations. I have been at the senior executive level for many years now and I can tell you, with an attitude like yours, the success of the organizations with which I have been charged would have been doomed from the beginning. As 666 put it, an accountant, like any other individual in any other profession is not "useless" as it seems you would like us to believe. Yes, there are people with either excellent, good, fair or poor work ethics, skills and problem-solving abilities within all levels of organizations. However, if I were to label them and have a preconceived notion of their "individual" character, their work ethic, their skill level or their actual problem-solving abilities based on the "labels" which tiassa places upon them, their would be no progress. Suffice it to say that my experiences with various accounting individuals whom I have both worked with and hired have been quite different from yours. My attitude is not what I would call "pie-in-the-sky" tiassa. It is what I would call "more reasonable" and respectful of individuals, regardless of what "label" tiassa chooses to place on them. P.S. If people who disagree with you were to actually heed your suggestions to "shut the hell up" it would only serve to further limit your exposure to diversity. Is that what you really want? [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 19, 1999).]
TrueStory-- First off, you're right. Accountants are the most important and morally sterling people in the world so long as you subscribe to the notion that a dollar bill is actually worth more than the paper it's printed on. The problem is, nobody knows what a dollar is worth. So, two might get you a loaf of bread? Okay, there's a way to measure it's value. But we don't. It's so formulaic and obscure that it takes various teams of people to cover all of the factors involved with determining what a dollar is worth. And how well do these clusters of sterling thinkers communicate? Well .... if I apply my usual standard, that I shouldn't expect more of other people than I expect of myself--and if I look around at the state of communications at my present company, and compare that to my past experiences--well, I'd say the communication between the left hand and the right hand is darn poor. So the end result is that I dare anyone to tell me exactly what a dollar is worth, aside from one-hundred pennies, or two cups of coffee. I don't care what it equals compared to a pound-sterling, I don't care what it equals compared to the Yen. Now, I don't care whether or not people disagree with me. That's what this forum is for. However, I might remind you that the fact we're going through this indicates you missed the point entirely, choosing instead to argue over what was already a fair-size generalization describing a process that is important to what I think will happen during Y2k. So, if you like all people, regardless ad nauseum .... Yeah. I suppose "feeding my family" is an important enough idea to want to do something, say, immoral. I would ask you how you feel about the people at Gillette, inc., who "feed their families" by testing cosmetics on animals, except, well, I already have your answer. How far does it go? We don't accept "it was my orders" for war crimes. How about "I was trying to feed my family"? I don't care whether an accountant is a Christian, a vegetarian, or a wife-beater. Those things I can't know about them. But I do care when someone thinks their best job is to make life more complicated--this is the standard result when accountants overstep the notion of simply accounting. I think of accountants as a social necessity: we have chosen this ugly, money-obssessed path and now must hire accountants to figure out the mess we've made. Certainly they perform a vital function, but it is a vital function supporting an extraneous, ficticious need. Ergo, it equals nothing. And remember, your perception of my being degrading is merely that: your perception. I can say someone has a useless job. I know--I have a useless job. Your abusive use of the word "extreme" (extreme, extreme, it's all extreme!) So tell me, then ... does it surprise you when lawyers oppose legislation capping their fees? Does it surprise me when accountants support complex tax laws that ensure a steady business flow for years to come? Would I be nearly as extreme if I said sports agents were useless? After all, somebody's gotta negotiate that six-million dollar contract and finagle your name onto a shoe. A popular term derived from accountants seems to be "the bottom line". I'm curious, then, if you support--or even see--the bottom-line mentality possessing Western, and especially American, culture. After all, we cannot see the effect of improving public education in a ledger. Not right away, at least. Thus, the accountants advise against such a high-risk investment. The accountants can, however, magically pull a billion dollars out of thin air to build two sports arenas. Incidentally, I support these arenas; I just find it sickeningly ironic that, given a choice, the voters prefer the bottom-line mentality: locally, at least, we feel it better to have comfortable athletes than well-prepared students. Why? I can only speculate, if it's not too extreme. But I'm pretty sure it has something to do with being able to tax ticket revenues and not being able to financially tax the value of knowledge. It's a better-looking bottom line. It seems about consistent with your presented reasoning that you think I just haven't met enough people. That's among one of your better, frequent responses. We could look at a parallel: I don't like work by the author Bob Larsen. Someone once told me I just hadn't read enough of his work. So how much should I read? The answer was sadly incoherent, but the gist of it was that I'm supposed to keep reading and keep reading until the guy publishes something that impresses me. So I could, I suppose, grab my lantern and walk the Earth, seeking an honest accountant. Would that satisfy your diversity requirements? I will restate, to make sure I'm clear: People are people--it's hard to object to them. I cannot fault them for being black, white, yellow, Christian, Jew, Muslim .... Many things we are born with, including some of the subjective things. But something we have to choose is what we do with our lives. If accountants stuck to addition and subtraction, then hey ... it's a fair, but seemingly boring gig. However, when accountants set the terms of progress with their "bottom-line" ideas, I think we're crossing into a whole new set of ideas. If it was just adding and subtracting, I don't see the need for the title CPA. But as it is, accountants have the culture convinced the only bottom line that counts is measured in dollars. And to continue to advocate that philosophy is wrong, especially when progress toward it merely increases your own wealth. It's not like skin color. You can stop being an accountant any day. Don't want to? Fine. Don't like the way accountants are represented? Change the way they act. But to continue to go forward in the current context is choosing to advocate its detriments. In other words, wishing ill. You're right, I am extreme. I see a culture with certain needs and desires. I see the same culture sacking those ideas because they cost too much, and don't show on the bottom line either soon or dramatically enough. Soon enough, from any combination of circumstances, problems will reach a point where no amount of money you can throw at the problem will solve it. I could gleefully ask what good money will do then, and especially the accountants who work with it. But that's not the point: I would rather avoid the crisis. Yes, I'm a terrible extremist because my general philosophy shows we should avoid the avoidable complications of society. Would you rather treat cancer symptoms or cure the disease? After all, any accountant will tell you it's better for your bottom line to treat the symptoms. If you cure the disease, you might lose your customer. Metaphorically or literally, I feel the same way. Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
tiassa, As you have made some suggestions, so shall I... try substituting "THE accountants" with "SOME accountants"... your arguments would make more sense... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Next: Try to understand that I never said that there's only ONE WAY to live life... To the contrary, I am aware of our free-will to live life as we please... Perhaps you are confusing this with only one way to salvation? Last (for now): As you are well aware, I never even insinuated such a thing... Try not to twist and exaggerate so much. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 19, 1999).]
Truestory-- Okay. I can accept that. I can use SOME. Now, if we've moved past semantics, can we get to the topic issue? thx Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
tiassa, Sure! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! So, what is the point? You have come across certain people in certain positions who you believe are stifling progress in addressing certain social issues? You feel powerless to make a difference, or what?
Guess what? I'm an accountant. I think that you guys may be labeling the wrong people in a way. The accountants crunch the numbers, yes, but they always crunch them in a way that spits out the answer that upper management wants. It's called creative accounting. Do you guys have any idea how much money a typical accountant makes? Believe me, we're not the ones getting rich. That's the CEO's, the VP's, the stockholders, or investors, not the accountants. It's the system. The whole flippin' thing. I used to "buy in" to it. Now I don't anymore. I hate my job. It's the most boring, tedious, useless job I can think of. But really, accountants are not the problem. They are primarily just peons who do whatever the boss says. Greed is the real culprit. The rich get richer right? There aren't many accountants out there getting rich; they're just trying to keep a roof over their heads like everyone else. They are just doing their jobs. If there wasn't a demand for it (the rich people who own the business demand it), they would gladly do something else to make a buck. I'm looking to make a change. I can't stand counting someone else's money all damn day and putting it into little "buckets". Who gives a shit, ya know? I get zero satisfaction out of my job. I'd like to do something that actually helps people (not help the rich get richer). Do you know who else makes the big money? The salesman. Shoving a bunch of useless crap that no one really needs down people's throats. They get big commissions for that. You know, it's really all of our faults for buying into this crazy system. If there wasn't a demand, there would be no sale. If the CEO decided to give the grain away instead of letting it rot, do you really think that the accountant would give a shit? Accountants NEVER give a shit. That's the whole nature of the job. Man, I hate my job. TGIF! ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
Lori-- For the first time ever, let me say "Amen" to your post. thx, Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
O.K. Lori, You can use your current skills and possibly even satisfy your desires by becoming the national director of one of a number of Christian Charity organizatiions in this country... In that role, in addition to helping people, you would ultimately be held responsible and accountable for the success of the entire organization and its going-concern and the welfare of it's employees and its beneficiaries. Your salary would be comparable to what you are currently earning... Oh, one thing though... These organizations have a thing about image, so... Character counts... If you cursed at people who pissed you off, you'd be fired. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Tiassa, If money not important, can I have all of yours?! Lori, Well I have to say you made some very vaild points. Have ever thought of looking for another job? Having a job you hate isn't healthy for you. ------------------ The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world -Max Born
truestory-I think she only cuts loose on us, as evidenced by the fact that she is still gainfully employed. Maybe we stay here because we like abuse Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!? I used to have a job where I could tell the clientele off. It was great. We got paid by the state to deliver medical supplies. We had a contract of sorts that made it very hard for the state to dump us. Most of the people were cool. They had enough on their hands with handicapped children without pissing people off. But some were of the "You owe me a living because I couldn't keep away from the drugs when I was pregnant" variety. I had no problem with the kids. They were just kids, after all, and some were angels while others were brats. But the parents would sometimes grate on my nerves. They'd piss me off, I'd tell them off, and they couldn't do anything about it because the state couldn't change carriers in this area. I really had to be pushed to it, though.
