What Would Have Made The Allies Lose WWII?

Discussion in 'History' started by Omega133, May 19, 2010.

  1. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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  3. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, thanks for the clarification

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  5. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    It's what i'm here for. Actually I came for the beer but whatever!

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  7. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Heh an armoured squadron is a battalion size I think.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Depends on many things - nationality*, time period, exactly which force is under consideration...
    And the terminology varied too: in Britain it would a section.

    Squadron is used for aircraft (or naval detachments) not men.

    *Even in WWII it varied quite a bit. 10 is usually a "norm" but the French (at the start) had 12 man squads (notably for Chasseurs Portés and Dragons Portés) but 8-man sections for other troops, the Germans up to 13 men, Brits 10...
     
  9. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    I just remember in the Art of War, a squad is 5.

    Ah, I didn't know that, I though 12 was the standard.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    That's more probably a fire team. (Half a squad).

    Pfft, everybody likes to do things their own way...

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  11. jmpet Valued Senior Member

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    If Germany worked on the A-bomb in the 1930's and perfected it with a dozen nukes by 1941, they could have conquered the world.
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    They couldn't have.
    Prior to the start of WWII France had cornered the market in uranium.

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  13. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Declaring war on Russia was probably the dumbest thing Hitler did. He probably could have taken Britain had he not done that.

    Actually they discovered during the war that depth charges were not very effective, sometimes even a direct hit would not destroy the sub.

    What they did discover though is what made them effective was repeated barrages of depth charges, they found that the greater amount of explosions consistantly stressed the metal of the submarine far more than a singular large explosion. Hence, the invention of the hedgehog which would fire dozens of smaller depth charges that would all explode around the same time and were tremendously effective.
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    pfffft.
    Are you serious?

    The nukes at the time werent even that powerful compared to modern standards. Plus, they were nothing compared to what Russia did. If a nuke off of a lucky hit can kill 150,000 civilians the Russians would not even flinch.
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    They'd do more than flinch if their tank and aircraft factories got nuked though.
    Not just lost production but all the tooling and drawings required manufacture more.
     
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Nah, Hedgehog improved the kill ratio because it fired forwards at a sub that had been located with sonar, as opposed to depth charges which required the ship to travel over the location and lose contact with the target.
     
  17. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    I'd like to point out that the allies did not "conquer the world" and neither was that the war aim of the Axis.

    Hitler for instance wanted Europe(including Russia) and perhaps the middle east. He didn't even want England.

    Japan really just wanted to complete their conquest in China, oil only became a strategic goal when no one would trade it to them anymore.

    Technically the Axis would have "won" the war if they were able to sue for peace in 1940,1941,1942,1943 and the beginning of 1944. Any set of circumstances that would have allowed them to "gain" from WWII would mean they won.

    Problem was Allies wouldn't (they had no reason to) and earlier when the Axis did have some good gains, they didn't even make like they(Axis) WANTED any peace. With the small exception of Germany wanting peace with the UK in 1939-1940.
     
  18. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    The USA, the UK and Netherlands had cut off Japan's oil supply prior to Pear harbor.

    Japan was going to have a hard time achieving their imperialist objectives in China without oil which was why the West cut off japan's oil. The West did not want to concede China to Japan's sphere of influence. Japan wanted to be like the west and have colonies and practice mercantile exploitation.

    It was clear that the USA and Japan were moving towards war prior to Pearl Harbor.

    http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/japan/japanworkbook/modernhist/wwii.html
     
  19. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    The Axis needed to include more states.

    If Germany and the Soviet Union could have maintained their truce after partitioning Poland WW2 may have ended differently.

    Germany thought they could beat the Russians. Germany may also have thought the Soviets would eventually attack Germany. So Germany attacked Russia. I suspect Russia would have attacked Germany eventually because the Soviets would know that if the Axis defeated the West they would then turn on the Soviets. The Soviets could not afford to face the Axis alone after the West was already defeated.

    Japan should not have been so greedy. If Japan had liberated South East Asia the from the racist Western colonizers rather than than replace the West by becoming the racist Japanese colonizers then the Axis could have had the people of South East Asia/Pacific as their allies.

    It was sort of difficult for racist Germany and racist Japan to play liberator but they probably would have been better off in that role. The West's colonies were ripe for revolt.

    The Axis could have had post revolt India, the Arabs and Africa as allies if they played their cards differently. These people had no military technology but they still would have been slightly useful as allies if only to deny raw material to the West and to demoralize the West.

    But the Axis did not want to liberate colonies; they wanted to take over colonies.
     
  20. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    No dyw, they actually found that the hedgehog worked better as far as damage.

    Think about metal fatigue, continuous repeated stress on a piece of metal can break it with less overrall effort than a single large source of stress.

    The hedgehog does that by having many explosions.
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    It did because Hedgehog bombs were designed to go off on impact only, not at a particular depth. Therefore the explosion occurred directly on the hull, which was not the case with depth charges.

    No: Hedgehog fired so many to make circle which covered the perimeter of the possible positions of the sub, that way it improved the chances of a hit.
     
  22. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely. That or if Germany would have invaded Russia and ended it before Winter hit. ou can't beat Russians in the Winter.

    I'll agree with that. Although I think Russia might have been able to hold out for a while. Proof of their resiliancy was the siege of Leningrad.

    That's an interesting point. The only Pacific Islanders that would not revolt would be the Phillipinos.

    See above reply.

    Not so sure about the Middle-East. Especially what was then Arabia. They were thankful to the British after WWI.
     
  23. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Here:

    The hedgehog was originally only set to detonate when it touched the hull, but the squid replaced it and threw real depth charges at an enemy sub.
     

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