What will we replace religion with?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    Fighting over one's belief in God is not going to solve anything. Instead, it will just make it worse.

    There's critiquing and there's "you're a retard if you believe in a God"..

    I don't have a problem in going after religious text. I do have a problem with trying to force people into atheism. Because it's not something that can be forced.

    My 7 year old is a theist. He believes there is a God - he doesn't know what - but he believes there's a heaven. I fully support his beliefs. Granted, I was shocked a few weeks ago when he told me this. But okay. They are his beliefs. I asked him if he wants to go to a Church or learn more about it and he refused. He just believes there's a God and heaven and that's that. Not interested in anything else. He doesn't do the whole you must do this because God says so. It's just a belief that there is a God and heaven. And he's happy with that. I'm not going to try to change his mind. He's quite firm about it. Who am I to demand he changes his mind? He's a happy and loving kid. His sense of what is right and wrong did not stem from a belief in God (which is very recent), but stemmed from how he was brought up - God was not a part of our atheist household. He might wake up tomorrow and decide there is no God or heaven. And that's fine also. This is his journey. I just hope that what we instilled in him will allow him to make the right choices for himself (whatever those may be) as he gets older.

    I'm not disagreeing with you Balerion. The text is bad and wrong. And a lot of the time, it counters what their deity's are supposed to be about. I mean look at Jan and his stoning comment. Christ didn't stone and stopped someone from stoning a poor woman. The whole point of that teaching is that no one is really ever without sin. It was barbaric enough for Christ to stop it.. Yet here's Jan saying it would be okay if someone is spiritually ordained to do it. Which is fucked up in ways that don't really warrant mentioning.

    And this comes from the text.. Should that be criticised and put in its place in the annals of barbaric history? Most individuals with a functioning brain stem would agree.

    Bingo.

    Which is the biggest problem.

    Which is the biggest problem with religion. Its followers believe they have the truth on their side, even if what they advocate goes against what God or Christ or whatever deity is actually about.
     
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  3. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    You must really cringe at some of my posts then.

    I see merit in that as far as the tactical plan (of the culture war). From a strategic POV though I think the arguments I prefer to raise (God does not exist) offer the potential of a long term solution. Namely, if enough people began insisting that this is true, then some of the folks walking around with bad logic might snap to it. The scales might fall from their eyes.

    That's the tactical POV. I see the logic. quinn related this recently, as a matter of her own personal experience.

    You realize in saying that, you've effectively stated their deity does not exist. (This idea was developed in the recent documentary Questioning Darwin. To the hardcore fundamentalists, anything that challenges the literal Word of God implies that God does not exist, and is therefore an abhorrent abomination.)

    Once you even suggest touching the text, you've wiped out all of fundamentalism. They don't realize it, but they've made the text their deity.

    That was an eye opener! It was like a major breakthrough just to get Jan to say such a thing. In all my life I have never heard any fundie explain the rationale for projecting hatred onto others as a matter of divine right. While my skin crawled like yours--it sounds like a a justification for a cult-based horror flick--in a sense I was relieved that finally someone let the cat out of the bag.

    Exactly. Literal interpretation of some sadistic practice which today would put people behind bars for life, or get them the death penalty.

    That fits with a lot of the human rights subjects you are always advocating for. My observations of Catholicism are that it's very strongly motivated by the commandment by Jesus to tend to the serve the needy. Now if they will only recognize that there is a huge segment of the population who are "needy" for equality, then they will have broken through the barrier of the older taboos.

    Wow. You know there was a similar schism in . . . the Methodist church, I believe? . . . for ordaining a female. As I recall, it was followed by a reconciliation, in which the long standing rule was overturned. It's inconceivable that this (blessing gay unions) would happen in the Catholic Church today, but who knows? Maybe the next pope? In any case it can't go on forever. Something eventually has to give, and it won't be society.

    How about that. I arrived at the same conclusion just at the same time.

    As I recall Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" and they all realized none of them were sinless so they left. The shocker is that there are a branch of Christians who believer they are sinless. That's nothing more than lack of remorse. It's really a strong indication of a psychopath. Hence you see how it might be easy to imagine murdering someone without a sense of guilt. Geez. What's up with that? :bugeye:
     
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  5. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I guess it depends on what you mean by "fighting."

    Oh, well, in that case, yeah. I certainly wouldn't condone insulting someone for believing in God. Though, I think it is fair to say that religion is a crutch for the weak-minded. That's not all it is, but it's definitely an aspect of it. So, again, I guess it comes down to how you define "attack."

    Are people doing that? I've honestly never heard of such a thing.

    And I wouldn't condone you trying to convince him otherwise. Just as I wouldn't call you a bad parent for letting him believe in Santa. There's a magic to such beliefs.

    However, I would be disappointed if he didn't abandon it when he becomes an adult.

    I agree with that. My point was simply that the text not changing hasn't stopped people from taking wildly different messages from it. This is, after all, the danger of having no central authority to your religion, and why the Catholics have a pope.

    Well, they owe that hubris to the concept of faith, which aligns them with the ultimate authority in the universe. It's what separates religion from a political belief. Nothing elicits such passion from such a broad range of people than the belief that your actions are affirmed by divine agency.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    See, that's what I don't quite get - where did the concept of a certain set of "actions" or "thoughts" being aligned with the divine come from anyway, especially when said actions are hateful, harmful, or downright evil? I mean... look at some of the beliefs of the more radical minded muslims - Jihads and the act of suicide bombing civilian targets being condoned by God? That is NOT a God I would want to follow by any stretch of the imagination!
     
  8. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Um, that is a god you follow. Have you read the Old Testament?
     
  9. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, though I have a caveat with that - the New Testament is intended to be the "new covenant", in which God has issued us the task of love and kindness. While I am a bit rusty on my biblical studies, if memory serves most of the truly terrible stuff in the old testament was performed BY God as a way of protecting his people from their enemies, not intended as something man was to use against his own enemies. In that sense, I can see a parallax - I would have no issue protecting my son/daughter from harm even if it meant taking action I would prefer my children not take part in themselves... a terrible double standard, I know...
     
  10. Balerion Banned Banned

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    This "new covenant" doesn't actually change any of the old laws, though. Jesus himself said that.

    I think the Christian movement would have been much better served to divest itself from Jewish tradition, including leaving the Torah behind.
     
  11. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    *nods* Agreed; perhaps if that had happened some of the darkest hours of Christianity could have been avoided, including the Crusades (though that falls largely back to political influence under the guise of "spreading the word")
     

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