What will we replace religion with?

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You say that, like it's a bad thing... Some just see it as "bonding"... Meh.

 

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Aqueous Id,

Example?

You'll probably find that those same individuals, if they should turn atheist, are still pretty vocal in how people should be. But this time their vitriol is directed at religious people, especially if atheism is in fashion like it was a couple of years ago. IOW it is their character and personality that should be questioned, not the bandwagons they hitch a ride on.

What is NOT happening are real meaningful discussions as to what is meant by scriptures, and religions that are based on those scriptures.

jan.

 

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Come on Jan, you can't get away with that. People have been arguing about scriptures and religion since people could speak! A lot of discussions ended up with wars, which is 'real meaningful', especially if you get killed. All over the globe Muslims are chatting to Christians who are chatting to Buddhists, and look at the result. What more do you want to talk about? Atheists would prefer that you shut up and do whatever you want to do in private, and leave us in peace.

 

That is the Christian way of looking things. Fine, but it doesn't really mean much...

God came down from Heaven in the guise of Jesus, died on the cross, and any who profess belief in him will be automatically saved from the material world, and will ascend into heaven to be with him forever, and all those who don't profess belief in him will go to Hell and burn for all eternity. So if I say ''I believe in the power of Jesus'', I am automatically cleansed? I know that's not how it works, if only by reading the words, and contemplating on the life (although heavily censored) somebody deemed fit to share with us in the gospels.

We must ''believe'', yes, because it is through that belief we develop the faith to move onward, despite not knowing for ourselves, who and what we are, who and what is God, and our relationship to God. That is a completely life changing situation, which we must embrace NOT on our own terms. Jesus' gave us a great example of what that life would entail, and how one would be perceived and treated by others. Through it all, he showed that he is, like us, in our pure form, transcendent to this atmosphere.

jan.

 

Sorcerer,

Really?
I don't think so. But my point is, there is no need for you and I to argue about scriptures and religion. We should discuss what the texts mean (especially outside of the Christian framework), despite our differences. Has it ever occurred to you that, spiritually, homosexuality, and adultery, are actual transgressive acts, despite what we might thing about them. And if that is the case, then we do ourselves and others harm, beyond what we can percieve with our senses.

But we don't have end our discussion with war.

Are they really chatting though? Or are they measuring dick sizes?

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I would like to discuss the meanings of the teachings by great characters like Jesus, Buddha, and so on. At least as a starting point.
It seems that all the atheists want to do here is knock religious scriptures (I say scriptures, but I mean the Bible as that is their main target), and do away with anything seemingly religious without even comprehending what it is they want to do away with outside of their own meagre comprehension.

I mean! Why have a religious forum if that is all it's for?

I know that's how you feel. But atheists have proven themselves to be the most vicious when they have the upper-hand. How many did a handful of atheists murder, in how short a space of time. Come on!
I know you're going to give the ''the didn't murder in the name of atheism comeback'', but that is just lame. They wanted to be rid of religion, and boy did they set about it.

jan.

 

Atheists aren't responsible for other atheists. This is unlike religions like Christianity, where supposedly, they all follow the same teaching. There is no teaching for atheism other than the idea that there isn't a god.

 

Of course not. All the atheist organisations, and churches, and religious wannabees (without God and Jesus), or ideologies {music, art...) where they take the teachings from scripture but disregard the teachers, are run by families, just for the heck of it. They don't want to propogate their ideology do they?

Oh and this Freudian-slip needs to be corrected...

jan.

 

Can you explain where the slip is?

 

I'm not sure I know where to go with this. Are you saying there has been no discussion? The world is awash with it. What do you mean, homosexuality is a transgressive act?!? Loving someone is transgressive? How does it hurt anyone if two men love each other?!? You should be ashamed of yourself for being a homophobe!

A lot of people do end the discussion with war.

I was using the expression chat ironically: they are beating the cr** out of each other.

It's called the religion forum, not the religious forum. You don't have to be religious to participate in talking about religion.

They didn't manage it though. There are still religionists all over the world persecuting women, minorities and each other, as a look at the news will assure you.

 

Erm, this is preaching or proselytising, isn't it?

 

There is no ideology of atheism.

 

Is this another one of your suggestions that western ethics are derived from religious ethics?

Would you care to explain that, or would you rather just admit that you made it up and have no compelling argument for it? And while you're at it, could you demonstrate your understanding of the differences between atheism and secularism? It seems you don't quite grasp these concepts. Maybe if we talked about them...?

Quite the blind generalization there, don't you think?

Another broad, seemingly baseless statement. Who isn't having the conversation? Who's supposed to be? Why should anyone care?

I'm being serious: Who is supposed to be bothered with scripture?

 

No, because Kittamaru asked a direct question about belief, and that was a direct response. Two Christians talking about their beliefs is not the same as someone trying to convert or preach to you. Perhaps this is why you have been unable to evaluate religion piecemeal. If you take any discussion of personal belief to be preaching/proselytizing (and some sort of affront to you personally) then you miss out on what religion is all about.

 

Why aren't you at least challenging Jan's assertion that God came to earth in the form of Jesus? Seems that if an atheist had said something similar, but to the contrary, you'd be interrupting that conversation quicker than a cough.

 

You still seem to be missing the point. You do not even necessarily need to take any one religion/denomination wholesale. There may not be any of these that speak to you in their entirety. You may not even find any that suit you enough for you to participate in, but you may find parts of several that you do find meaningful. Maybe you find a reverence for nature and Western traditions appealing (i.e. Wiccan-Christian). Or if you are committed to atheism, perhaps Buddhism is the best fit.

 

Are people not allowed to share their beliefs? This one does nothing to impugn the beliefs or intelligence of others.

 

This seems to be true. I would say most modern theists accept the parts of their faith that they're comfortable accepting, and either ignore or dismiss the rest. Even in places where religion is law, most people don't follow it to the letter.

I disagree with the notion that anyone needs religion, obviously. If you're going to take it special-order anyway, then you are clearly capable of thinking for yourself, have principles that make no reference to any religious code, and therefore are only seeking something that can be found elsewhere. Go read a book, or something. Go join a club. No need to associate yourself with ancient pre-philosophy cults, no matter how watered down you take them.

 

Impugning others' beliefs hasn't seemed to be a requisite in the immediate past...

 

No, the recent past has been about hasty generalizations and trolling, neither of which is committed by a belief in the divinity of Jesus.