What to do against bullies.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Treval, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    It creates very angry disillusioned individuals as the case you cite demonstrates.

    To forgive saves one self burning up inside and enduring the pain of bullying forever but really this is unrealsitic, it always leaves a mark. One that only be erased by restoring the power that you had stripped from you when bullied. Power can only be restored by taking it back. As said that power can be taken back by not allowing the bullying to affect you after the event, or by retaliation.

    But the desire to have that power returned remains until you do one of the other. Else it remains festering, growing until the 'power' you seek to 'take back' far exceeds the power that was taken.

    hence shooting up the school.

    Shooting may be extreme, but I am not at all against bullies learning a valuable lesson in NOT bullying.
     
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  3. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    bullying is a natural thing, it happens in nature as well as in humans, in wolf packs there is always a wolf who is bullied and beaten etc.. as it helps the majority group function as a whole
     
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  5. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Here's the problem, TOR. The bullies do have a sort of social organization. They have learned how to shut out any opposition to their bullying. They literally believe that they are supposed to rule other humans. They carry this belief over into their adult lives when they become judges, police, and legislators.

    They can become really solid and refuse to change what they do to someone for any reason. The idea of them getting shot is particularly satisfying and even morally justifiable because of the damage that bullying does. It isn't the best way. We also should keep in mind the fact that the bullies can and will use arson and murder themselves, maybe a little bit sneakier. In some of these towns that have these cliques even the police are used to murder people who are likely to "cause trouble." They don't necessarily have to murder the actual troublemaker. They might murder someone whose murder will cause the troublemaker to become despondent. I don't know how many of them realize that it is better to paralyze and exert some kind of control over an individual than it is to kill them outright. If they remove the locus, it is replaced and becomes an unknown quantity. If they control its actions, then it becomes their tool or at least harmless to them.

    Forgiving the bullies and leaving them in power causes another problem. Bullies need someone to bully. They can't even allow everyone to become law-abiding normal citizens. They have to create a criminal underclass by embittering people, by cutting them off from their family and friends, by getting them out of decent jobs, by forcing them to live in crappy housing with no medical care. That stuff is also good for some income on the side.

    Good people don't think that they have the right to discriminate against others. Most good people don't realize that we are actually in a secret war with casualties and fatalities. It has to be secret because if we knew that we were in a war it would be all right to do something to the perpetrators. They deceive us into thinking that they deserve consideration, compassion, and forgiveness without having to change their ways. They even deceive us into thinking that it is safe to allow them to be in charge of things that affect our lives. Sure, give the job of police officer who used to commit strong-arm robbery of other children when he was a teenager. We get to feel good because we forgive and forget. When he picks the pocket of someone he's pulled over at a traffic stop, it was probably drug money or money for prostitutes anyway, wasn't it?
     
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  7. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I have seen enough testimony to identify patterns of behavior. I have had enough personal experience to make this real.

    I have actually wondered if they are of a species foreign to humanity. This would have to be in a more subtle way than the genetics that we know, and genetic science is still in its infancy. Genetic fingerprinting is far more art than science right now.

    I don't just "suppose" that the world is just the same. There is a lot of evidence. It can be found in literature that is centuries old. Even the idea that there is not a continuum between childhood and adult behavior is a recent delusion. Does someone want to tell me that I am cherry-picking evidence that bullying took place hundreds of years ago? Might I remind you that adulthood until very recently was granted at the typical age of puberty and that the Inquisition lasted hundreds of years and was very popular. Only recently has the absence of bullying been a possibility worth considering. There never was such a thing as "the good old days" when family values dominated. When teen pregnancy wasn't a problem it was because teens who were sexually active were married and starting a family, and when American society was supposedly at its best, lynching black people wasn't even illegal and we had McCarthy and Prohibition and the drug wars.
     
  8. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Respected by whom?

    Hell, yes. Look at the history of "authority" anywhere. Don't think I should dredge up stuff from the past? When they do it to people like drug users, they call it "past performance." It's hardly credible when they claim that they are through oppressing people when they really don't admit to ever having done it.
     
  9. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I don't have much to say about online moderation in this thread. It can come up for sure. Some moderators definitely use their powers for evil. Some are set up as a pretense of discussing a subject but they are actually there to hurt people who would speak against whatever is "mainstream" at the time.

    That leads into the consequences of adult bullying. Children bully when they are children to practice up for their activities as adult bullies. They can drive others to loss of jobs and businesses, loss of freedom, insanity, and suicide. The smartest people in the world still cannot contend well with simple and brutal abuse of minds and bodies. It's like a bullet can cause its damage in a millisecond and it can take years, if ever, to repair that damage. Destruction is such a very leveraged activity. A little bit of destruction takes out a hell of a lot of construction.
     
  10. Roman Banned Banned

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  11. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Your victimizing talk annoys me. Listen, you can become a judge too, you can become a police officer too, you can bully the bullys. You don't have to sit back and complain about how bullies rule the world if you arent willing to help people who are trying to keep bullies from bullying you. Why don't you join the police force? Why don't you help politicians get elected? If you are bullied why don't you try to build your own base of power and support?

    As far as the other stuff you said, you are being a bit paranoid. Let the authorities worry about organized crime, unless you want to become an authority.

    Also most bullying does not end in people being killed. Actually most of the time, it's just stalking and harrassing, character assasination, and kicking them out of town.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  12. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    The world is tribal, it's factions, you can join an anti-bully faction, or you can join a bully faction, but if you are alone you'll have to create your own faction and I doubt you can.

    Women were bullied for a long time, they organized, and now women have laws in place which can bully guys. Learn about the feminist movement, learn how people organize.

    There is always bullying, but bullying today happens in groups, not alone. It's almost never 1 on 1, if you piss off a connected person thats really all it takes to get bullied.
     
  13. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Whutchootalkinaboutwillis?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think that I have to create my faction so much as I have to convince it that it exists, which is already does. I never seem to make it clear that the non-bullying faction is the vast majority and it consists very largely of people who "go along" and haven't figured out where to dig in their heels.
     
  15. Roman Banned Banned

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    Going along contributes a great deal of momentum to whatever it is we're doing, whether it's killing Jews or curing polio.

    So far it seems more has been gained by "going along" than resisting, sort of. There are a lot of groups "going along" against a lot of other groups also "going along." Opposition parties so to speak.

    It seems to have worked out pretty good.
     
  16. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I think we need to be a little more selective about what we contribute our momentum to. Good thoughts, Roman.
     
  17. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Actually most factions arent actively existing to bully people. You have all sorts of gangs, most just want to make money and make things better for the individual members. Some others are just, interested in bettering the community. Some others are just business factions.

    Bullying is not really the purpose of most groups. If you are being bullied, find people who think similar to you, but don't look for victims, find people who are strong enough to live life and not be in constant fear. You'll find support. It's important that you be a good person who is willingly to protect your community, and you'll find people who protect the community as you do.
     
  18. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Roman for once I actually agree with you. You are correct. In general, people have to find their family, their tribe, their people so to speak. It's not based on race either, it's completely based on goals.

    Ask the right questions and look for others asking the same questions.
     
  19. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    It's way too easy to get people into that game, though.
     
  20. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    TimeTraveler, reading it again I think you're giving me pretty good advice. I know that not everyone is into the bullying thing and probably not most people. For the first time in a couple of years I am once again blessedly free of bullying in the workplace. The people act better there overall and it seems to me that absenteeism and tardiness are less among those who stay, although there is still too high a turnover among the temps.

    What worries me about the idea of "protecting" my community is that it could too easily slide into playing the rule of a bully without having truly positive values behind it. About the only thing I see happening where I live right now is that "they" actually do leave you alone when you "comply." It says much that this is a sort of progress towards the better. The trouble is, there is a lot of nitpicking to "comply" with and "they" are way too prone to seeing problems and "dealing" with problems that are none of their business. "They" are still troublemakers in a big way. This is not a good way to live, simply to avoid receiving trouble from some very minor public employees.

    What some people see as a messed-up way to live I see as living a more open, more enjoyable lifestyle. That lifestyle has the same problems as the carefully groomed suburban lifestyle but it also has the freedom that is missing in suburbia. It's not really more dangerous because where I had more freedom some dangers were less dangerous. Just one of those was that the police were a lot less primed to shoot someone to death just because they could. Maybe that was because they were less overworked and because they weren't asked quite so often to push their damn noses in where they didn't belong.

    I guess it's always been true that a lot of the things that police are called upon to mess with have been better left alone. It just seems worse these days.
     
  21. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    I looked up workplace bullying, I found a site which may help you. http://mobbing-usa.com/Resources.html

    The whole point is, mob bullying, which is bullying 2.0, is organized. This is the sorta bullying you seem to be faced with right? You aren't facing 1 on 1, you are facing the entire town right?
     
  22. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    The whole point is, if you are being bullied, you'll have to either join a faction, form your own, or stay independent. If you are independent, it's like being independent in prison. The same rules apply, don't get involved in their business, mind your business, don't snitch, and if you get bullied and don't have the organization to defend yourself, leave town. Independent usually means you aren't going to be able to handle a mob of bullies. You certainly won't be able to handle any gang, on any level. You can however protect yourself, like I said, be smart and seek help.
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Thank you for the link, Time Traveler. I have left town and I hope that I can save enough money to buy my own car. Then I will move to where there is a little more personal freedom than there is here. This neighborhood may be a "good neighborhood" but the local hoodlums still go through cars looking for drug money, nothing I really want is legal here, I have to drive to work, and taxes are high.
     

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