What really happened in Pearl Harbor

Discussion in 'History' started by Overdose, May 6, 2004.

  1. Mr. Chips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    954
    Lot of grist for the mill at http://www.independent.org/archive/pearlharbor.html

    Interesting that two documents that detailed plans for world domination by the US, one in 1998 and one in 2000 suggested a Pearl Harbor type incident would be necessary to get the public behind the plans. Further interesting that the authors of the second document, Project for a New American Century, now hold high positions in the current administration. Even more interesting that the US seems to be following those global plans, first outlined by Zbigniew Brezinski(sp?), head of state department for Reagen, in his 1998 book "The Grand Chess Game," very closely.

    To discount conspiracy altogethor is not logical. Did the Japanese conspire to attack Pearl Harbor? Of course. Did the US conspire to allow the attack on Pearl Harbor to sway public opinion? From the evidence, it appears quite likely, ultranationalist blanket exonerations excluded.

    spelling corrected
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2004
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  3. aghart Registered Senior Member

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    What happened at Pearl Harbor is the norm for peaceful loving countries. Only peace loving countries get caught unawares because it is not in their nature to be 'war ready' at all times. Had a US fleet not been at Pearl then a different attack would have taken place, but it matters not because the US Fleet needed to be disabled for the Japanese to conquer South east asia.

    The Japs would have created a plan to disable the US navy whatever it's peacetime location and disposition. The simulatanious Japanese attack throughout the Pacific was a magnificent piece of planning and preparation. The Japanese just about thought of everything, even the difficulty in warning the rest of the world of an attack and alerting your next target.

    How many of you know that Japanese forces landed on the east coast of Malaya and were in action against the British/Indian defenders a full 90 minutes BEFORE the first bomb landed on Pearl Harbor?.
     
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  5. Gerry Nightingale Banned Banned

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    A reply to AIP's this thread.

    In point of fact, the first Roosevelt to anticipate war with Japan and Germany was Theodore! He sent his daughter Alice on a "goodwill" mission to Japan, to "meet and greet" with

    their dignitaries and industrialists...what no one knew was that Alice could understand and speak Japanese!

    She was also very intelligent, like her father...and kept a coded diary of each conversation overheard at parties and receptions. To the Japanese, she was a curiosity and not

    "worthy" of any wariness when they expressed their long-term goals with regard to Japanese intents. The amount of information she gathered was priceless!

    She also made trips to Germany...most of which was then still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. (she understood German quite well also, and of course, no one knew it)

    All of her information led to the creation of the "Great White Fleet" complete with oversize flags so anyone with eyes could see the ships and the flags far out to sea.

    The ships had special meaning with regard to Paraguay, and the thousands of German nationals there at the time, almost ready to establish a "mandate by default" that

    Germany had the right of "eminent domain" in Paraguay to ostensibly "protect their interests" because of loan defaults by the government in-place.

    .....

    Kaiser Wilhelm wanted more "Lebensraum" for Germany, even if it were across an ocean! Germany had nothing to lose...until the appearance of the "Fleet".

    America was already almost at war with Germany in 1902!!! Wilhelm backed off from his challenge to the "Monroe Doctrine" of non-interference in the Americas by foreign powers.

    ......

    (all of the above is easily verified by reading T. Roosevelt's diaries of that time....just google or Bing)



    (Thanks for reading!)
     
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  7. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
    No, there really aren't.

    America provided the catalyst and the excuse, Japan exercised the only real option they had at the time.

    As far as interpretation of history goes, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour is about as simplistic as it gets.
    You need soft eyes.
     
  8. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,053
    the attack on pearl haber was a failure. they were after the carriers. also we got got unawares because radar operators misread information.
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,053
    not really the japanese had other options. Yamamoto himself thought the plan to attack pearl harbor was a mistake.
     
  10. NCDane Registered Senior Member

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    I agree. The Japanese could almost surely have bypassed US Pacific possessions and bases altogether and seized everything they wanted in South Asia without US intervention.


    This is incorrect. The exact opposite is true: Yamamoto masterminded the PH attack.

    According to histrorian Gordon Prange in At Dawn We Slept (p13), in Yamamoto's own words, in writing, on 12/19/41:

    "The plan of launching a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor at the outset of the war to give a fatal blow to the enemy was decided in December of last year, when fleet strategy was revised."

    And other supporting quotations from Yamamoto follow.
     
  11. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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  12. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Yamamoto planned the attack yes. but he thought the very idea of going to war with the Us to be a bad idea. while the quote about the sleeping giant is uncomfirmed he was generally apathetic about japan's chances in a protracted war with the US. Yamamoto planned the attack because he was their best admiral not cause he any sort of attachment to the idea.
     
  13. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    If people knew all the suppressed history, they might not bear with the delusion they live in
     
  14. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
    Either that, or it might reinforce it.

    Be careful what you wish for.
     
  15. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    "Canada. I don't even know what street that's on." - Al Capone
     
  16. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
  17. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    1,784
    Does it matter?

    Someday, someone will come along and tell you how I should have felt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  18. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    What an utterly pathetic viewpoint for someone to take. There's no evidence that America had any interest in attacking Japan whatsoever until Japan forced them into the war, and plenty of evidence for America's utter lack of appetite to take heavy casualties and spend massive warchests. Secondly, Japan didn't have to go murdering millions of Chinese citizens on Chinese soil, so bombing the US for not selling oil makes as much sense as nuking Tokyo because of a Nintendo embargo. Your buddy needs to figure out fast who his country's real friends are in today's world, because it's an extremely hostile neighbourhood at the moment.
     
  19. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    Anything about history should be brough to light. Most of the history we have been fed is just crap. Read; "Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR

    and Pearl Harbor ROBERT STINNETT" or Curtis B Dall “Franklin Delano Roosevelt My Exploited Father in Law” or
    Mandate For Change, General Dwight Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and 34th U.S. President from 1952 to 1960,
     
  20. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    5,852
    I repeat, there was ZERO appetite amongst the American public to stick their noses into WW2, nor were they militarily prepared for it. That didn't change until after Japan decided to try being something they're not.
     
  21. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    Americans never ever wanted to get in to war. Nor did Hitler, nor did Japan. People are made to support war. Forced through political Hegelian Dialectics
     
  22. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Well the difference is that Germany and Japan were not under attack when their people chose to throw their support behind their wars. Japan could go find their own freaking oil if they were so desperate to continue the mass murders, America forced them into NOTHING, but after Pearl Harbor Japan left the US with no choice of its own.
     
  23. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    If you read the true history, and not the contrived on we have been fed, you will come to realized that it was the other way round. Japan was left with no choice but to attack. Ask yourself, why did America go for Germany instead of dealing with Japan which attacked it? Of course you will say its because of the pact that Japan had with Germany. Been drinking the Kool-Aid
     

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