What qualifies as science?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Jozen-Bo, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Or maybe the simulation is simulated. It could be simulations all the way down.
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure Mr Occam would like that
    He is a fan of Terry and turtles though

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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Hedonism is a philosophy created by a student of Socrates.
     
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  7. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Hello. Excellent question, "What qualifies as Science."

    To myself, Science requires repeatable results. This means an experiment is conducted on multiple occasions. Should the results be the same, they may be assumed to be correct. For is this not correction? To have a reply the same as the answer?
     
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  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I stand corrected. I was taking the most extremist definition. But, then I ran across this
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hedonism

    It seems this could be an extension of the universal tendency of "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction."[/quote]
     
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  9. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    Alive or living depends on the information written inside an atom? We're made up of similar elements that are in plastic. When we're dead we're surely not dead, we're just living differently. What happens to our mind? I don't believe the mind falls with the body. That would be my argument against simulation. The conscious software of the brain
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What do you do with an old broken computer?

    You speak as if a mind can exists in reality, independent of a brain as a processor. That would be impossible as thoughts are fleeting stimulations of sets of specialized neurons.

    You are describing a Tulpa.

    It seems clear that the fundamental elements of the universe allow for the formation of a variety of expression in reality.
    The formation of bio molecules is but one expression of the incredible variety of chemical reactions possible in the elementary world. The formation of the brain and the ability to think came much, much later. Why should it be a fundamental aspect of the universe itself?

    Tegmark's universe is not a simulation, but the sum and expression of natural values and equations, inherent in the fabric of spacetime itself. The functional ability is fundamentally mathematical. Tegmark claims about ~32 numbers and equations by which all of it can be explained, eventually.

    From that natural example we are able to write scientific computer programs and also is causal to how our individual minds develop and learn.

    Each brain is an open platform bio-chemical computer. But turn "off" the computer and all its stored information is erased.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    NO. There is no information written inside any atom. Just as a car does not have any information written inside the car. You can pull the car apart and describe the parts but over and above the arbitratory names we give the parts they is no such "thing" as information stored in the car

    Nooooooo we're dead. Living differently generally means changing house or sex

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    MIND is a PROCESS not a INGREDIENT. No life no process. When a car "dies" there is no such "thing" as a ingredient as running to replace in the car to make it run again

    I think one ( there are many many strange things about the brain) is that it grows its own software
    Computers require a operating system to run programs (software)
    The brain does come pre wired with a few auto responses built in. But for something like say learning a language the brain appears to lift itself up by its bootstraps and constructs its own software. Sections of the brain do appear to be better suited to handle aspects of thinking although the plasticity of the brain means those areas are not exclusively locked into a specific aspects. Should a "specialist" area be damaged other "specialist" areas are capable of taking over

    Summary
    No information in atoms
    Dead is dead = no longer working
    No longer working = dead
    Brain writes its own software

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  12. geek Registered Member

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    The notion: the more we know, the more we dont know, and continuing pushing our limits-with all phases of time ie, the history, the present, and the future, to unveil the vast unknown... is the only Qualification in science.

    Any thin else, the notions like - we do know a lot of things, stumbles in the category of religion, not science, i guess.

    The only constant in Science is : Change.
     
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  13. river

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    True

    When we get to the point that there is nothing more to know in this Universe , then we know .
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The only information "written" inside an atom is about how to bond with other atoms - square pegs in square holes, etc. There is nothing that tells a carbon atom whether it's coal or coal miner.
     
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  15. river

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    true , but that's not the point .

    within each atom is the potential of life . the information in the atom , by the atom , is expressed in the molecule of atoms , bio-chemistry .
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are going back one step too far. Atoms only have the information that makes it an atom of a particular kind, some which are necessary in the formation of bio-molecules, which do have the potential to be used for living things.

    I's like saying that the clay in any old brick has the potential to become a house. But that is misleading,
    It's not the clay, but clay formed in a specific shape (a brick) which acquires the potential for use in building a house.
    And you need a bunch of bricks of different size and shape to make things fit when building a house.

    Same as a bunch of specific atoms may form bio-chemical molecules which have to potential to be used in building a living organism.
     
  17. river

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    as I said in my post #292.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite, though one can make a case that the entire universe is filled with potential for expression in reality.
    Bohmian Mechanics.

    But even Bohm postulated a hierarchy of ordering states from which potentials are acquired. If you go back too far, these potentials tend to become merely probabilistic, i.e. mud may stay mud, but if it is a specific type of mud it may shaped and fired into bricks which have the direct potential (implicate) for construction of a house.
     
  19. river

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    yes
     
  20. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Excellent arguement River! Should we continue through science, will everything exist?
     
  21. river

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    hmmm....the Universe has limits.
     
  22. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    Summary
    No information in atoms
    Dead is dead = no longer working
    No longer working = dead
    Brain writes its own software

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    [/QUOTE]

    Summary

    No information in atoms that we're able to read. It is possible to store information inside single atoms.

    All that has been here has always been here, death is transformation into different life.

    No longer working = retired

    The brain, one of the things we know least about apparently writes its own software. There is absolutely no proof nor probability that the mind/conscious/soul dies with the body or lives when the body dies. Interestingly enough, many studies have been done on people who have died then came back to life claiming they were floating above their body. Some cases went extreme enough, they could recall the movements of the doctors and what they were saying. Conversely, studies also show co2 toxicity in the patients which could explain the hallucinations in SOME of the cases.

    I agree though, that the mind is like software. I've been studying the leaps in my baby daughters brain. Each leap is like a software update where the baby all of a sudden has new comprehension. It's stressful for the child, image waking up one morning and realising you have hands that you can move!
    Scientists have managed to map quite accurately when your baby will be going through a leap to prepare you for tantrums.
     
  23. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    This is the science section so you need to support your claims, you cannot just make things up in the science section.
    Support your claim or retract it.

    Support your claim or retract it.

    All proof indicates that consciousness dies with the body. There is no evidence at all that a soul exists.

     
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