What qualifies as science?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Jozen-Bo, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    What I meant by everything being subjective, I was meaning in the class of the way one looks at the world. When you follow blindly, without thought, the subjective often gets viewed as objective. Like churchies kids
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    So what you mean by subjective is subjective to what you mean by subjective

    Ya that works good in the real world when dictionaries have already worked out the objective meanings of words

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  5. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    In other words, everyone views the world differently
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Very true. This is exactly why science insists on reproducible observations of nature. The whole idea is to remove the subjective element as far as humanly possible, to ensure the objective truth of how we perceive the world to behave.

    It follows from this that, although everyone sees the world differently, this by no means implies that every person's perception is equally valid, at any rate when it comes to questions of science.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  8. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly

    Tiny tiny changes in perspective (a little bit to the left or right or a little bit higher or lower or a little bit further away or closer)

    However people close together looking at the same general scene are observing the same objective reality (close enough)

    The difference comes in with the interpretation - the subjective versions

    However test performed with equipment, which can only be objective, it does not matter who does the experiment, if all the conditions are the same the same result will be reproduced

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That's moving the goal posts. Some people love rain, others hate it. But no one denies it is rain.
     
  10. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    No one knows it's rain
     
  11. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I think Write4U meant no one in their right mind would deny it is rain.
     
  12. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    Me and Elon Musk. It's not about denying, it's about not knowing
     
  13. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I am sorry you are not able to know when it is raining, I guess on a positive note you save money on raincoats and umbrellas. I believe that Elon Musk is able to identify rain, I have not asked him, but I think it is a good bet that he does.
     
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  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence is putting out matches with his fingertips. Another British soldier tries it, burns himself and says, "Ooh! It damn well 'urts!" Lawrence replies, "Certainly it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."

    It is definitely about denying. Elon Musk knows when it's raining. He might not mind that it's raining.
     
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  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Every surface dweller on earth knows what rain is. Only a few know why it rains.....difference.
     
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  16. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    We think we know, we do know the process of rain from the earth to the sky to the earth. Thing is, you break down rain enough times and you get something no different from a cotton ball in the Sahara desert.
    We all perceive rain the same way but who knows if we're right? Nobody
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    When the experience of being rained on (getting wet) is subjectively true for every human, we can agree on the phenomenon and give it a name.....rain.
    When "rain" turns into what looks like cotton balls, because it is cold, we call it snow. It's all by general agreement. A rose is a rose by any other name.
    But the universe does not call it anything.
    https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

    Hedonism is a psychological condition, an obsessive behavior pattern. But the reality is that "everything in the universe tends to move or act in the direction of greatest satisfaction".

    That's why we all take shelter from the rain, except for a few species that thrive on rain, such as trees. They stay outside and soak up the life giving water and CO2. In return trees give off oxygen which is necessary for all other life.

    And science has pretty well figured out how and why this happens. That's what Science is for! The objective study of environment and the processes that create natural phenomena.

    It's really one of the most direct changes of state from water to water vapor and back to water (or snow) known to science. We can do it in a laboratory and objectively agree on its consistency in nature.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Does not compute. Have you ever seen a drop of water? When a bunch of water drops come from the sky above, we call it "rain". Why make it more complicated? We know how it works.
     
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  19. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    Elon Musk seems to believe we live in a simulation - subjective universe.
    There are compelling arguments for both sides of the story, one does not stamp out the other. I don't believe in anything, I just live.
     
  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure how compelling his arguments are (and I'm not interested so don't bother with any links)

    Does he have compelling EVIDENCE

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  21. Nahor87 Registered Member

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    I respect you too much to bother with posting links. As I respect the opinions of Elon Musk. I was just using him as an example. There are many respected scientists, philosophers etc with similar opinions to Elon. I am not knowledgeable enough to say reality is objective or subjective, I simply don't believe anyone is.
    Everyone's individual reality varies, little left, little right, little up or little down

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  22. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    So in the short version

    No evidence

    Next time I meet Mr Occam when he is shaving I will ask him about reality vs simulation

    For Huey Dewey and Louie they consider the simulation idea to be the love child of to closely related siblings Mr god and Ms ID

    Looks nice but unfortunately should not be included in reality

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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Max Tegmark believes that IF we were a part of a simulation that functions as the universe does (purely mathematical), we would not know the difference and if you think about it, it really doesn't matter. It's real to us and apparently to every living thing on earth.
    There is no difference in our experience of reality, be it real or simulated.

    One perspective that supports reality is our ability to experience emotions, such as pain or happiness. As Anil Seth (above #274) observed in regard to the possibility that an AI can be very smart (intelligent) but you don't have to be intelligent to feel pain.
    But you probably do have to be alive......

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017

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