What news outlet/resource informs, and doesn't try to influence?

First, relax.

Second, who decided that Republican or Democrats are the US' only hope?

You're not ''hearing'' me. I want to be free of this two party invention. Contrived by both parties, to serve both parties. Neither party cares about Americans, and I don't care what you say, you don't live here. You only know so much. So be respectful in the fact that I live in the US...and I want a party who cares about American lives, and the lives of others.

The Repubs say they do, the Democrats say they do. But, I want something different. That's the beauty of America, iceaura. I have the freedom to choose my own way. Your desire to force-feed me with your own set of political values, is actually more Republican-esque than you think.

Someday, you'll actually read what I post. And not what you want to see in my posts.

 

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I'm reading your posts. They contain a significant volume of repetition of Republican propaganda memes, including rhetorical format and vocabulary and viewpoints characteristic of Republican media feeds, that are not based in physical reality. That is not likely to be a path leading to freedom from that Party.

I don't blame you. As a first step, I suggest freeing yourself from Republican Party media feed bullshit. You could begin that difficult extraction by deliberately avoiding bothsider rhetoric in your posts - no more typing "Democrats and Republicans", "both Parties", and other such precursors to bubble-headed nonsense. No more treating major US corporate media news sources as if they were split between two "sides", or somehow on the "left".

And you check off another box on my wingnut bingo card - the attempt at personal disparagement from near complete ignorance, often derived from the standard Fox Brand assumptions the wingnut Republican media feed has inculcated in its victims regarding their critics.

The entertainment value of watching victims of Republican propaganda make silly assumptions and accusations and speculations - always irrelevant, always wrong so far, and in public - about who I am, what I do, how and where I live, my height and weight, my gender, my age, my political allegiances, the position I played on my high school football team, my ownership of guns, my positions on various issues I haven't addressed, and so forth (no kidding - all of those and more) is one reason I post so little personal data on these sites - another being a desire to skip the inevitable foulness of the personal attacks they will inevitably deliver if they are provided any such info. (They aren't ok, these people - the world has turned on them, and they don't know why).

What one learns from that experience, as now with you, is the central importance of personal attack and insult in the latest rise of American fascism and its takeover of a major political Party. Bullying is how they won, and what they do - continual and repetitive bullying.

Meanwhile: Parties don't care about anything. They are tools. They aren't human. Candidates and politicians sometimes do - much more often when not Republican, these days, of course. The Republican Party has taken a very dark road, and taken its politicians with it.

You are posting Republican Party propaganda feed here, and claiming it as your own opinion. If you want freedom of thought, if you want to choose your own way, you are going to have to deal with whatever has caged you in that bubble world.

I suggest starting here: bothsides is bullshit. Even if the assumption is confined to the two major political Parties and limited to their recorded behavior rather than including their rhetoric and policies, it's bullshit. There is no significant Democratic Party equivalent to what the Republican Party has been doing since Reagan - not in the media, not in Congress, not in the Judiciary, not in the Presidency, - - and not on the streets. The process of getting "free" of Party is going to be quite different if the Republican Party remains in control of major US media and governance much longer.

 

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Hmm, more lies about someone you don’t know.

Your rant is really odd and I’d possibly be offended if it made sense. But you’re accusing me of being a victim of the Repub newsfeed. I’m not. Accusing me of bullying you. I’m not. You’re calling me a Republican. Nope, wrong again.

I've reported your post, so if you want to keep posting lies and harassing me...whatever. And yes, it's harassment at this point...it's not the only thread you've attacked me with absurd accusations, derailing the thread with your rants.

 

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Are you somehow, in some strange way, claiming to be one of these "victims of Republican propaganda" iceaura?

Is that the reason that you "make silly assumptions and accusations and speculations - always irrelevant, always wrong so far, and in public"?

If it is not "Republican propaganda" that causes you to "make silly assumptions and accusations and speculations - always irrelevant, always wrong so far, and in public", then what is it that drives you to do so, iceaura?

Regardless of the impetus, iceaura, you are providing ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE - entertainment or otherwise - by making "silly assumptions and accusations and speculations - always irrelevant, always wrong so far, and in public" on this Forum.

 

I have never called you a Republican.

Since I have confined my posts to observations based strictly on your posting here, your claim that I don't "know" is obviously false - I'm quite familiar with your posting here, as my repeated quoting of it makes clear.

You, on the other hand, post about personal matters of which you have no clue - such as where I live, and what nationality I possess, and so forth.

Meanwhile, re your repeated accusation of "lying" without providing a single example: Please quote one sentence in any post of mine here that is at least a falsehood. (You do agree that it has to be false to be a lie, right?).

Something else I did not do.
Not for lack of evidence, of course - your behavior toward me has been not far from classic wingnut personal attack, complete with namecalling and misrepresentation and willful failure to read and threats and attempted mischaracterization and the whole shebang - including losing touch with reality altogether, mid whine:
I don't live in America, so I don't have your knowledge, you post. After addressing me as you have - liar, not American, etc - you are going to report me for harassing you, you say. What planet is that coming from?

Attacked your posts, you mean. If that's what you mean, you are correct - part of my agenda here is to flatly confront repetitions of Republican media feed propaganda. I do that because I saw how the resurgent American fascist movement took over that Party, and in particular how it won the Presidential election of 2004 - by sheer repetition, the recruitment of thousands of manipulated parrots into a chorus of bullshit on all these little forums of public discussion, where they simply wore down the sane and decent by barrage and inundation.
That may happen again, but not because the folks in my sphere were not warned.

You most certainly are, quite obviously - as I did you the courtesy and favor of explaining, with several quotes and reasons and step by step explication, so you could do something about it. That was information, learned from your posting and presented to you - take it or leave it, but don't pretend it was an "accusation" or that it was not well supported by the evidence.

I provided those quotes (and several others) in the first place, as part of a perfectly civil explanation with examples of exactly what I was talking about as Republican Party media feed bs - after which you called me a liar, and made false claims about what I had posted (without a single quote, notice). You then demanded that I provide the quotes again, declaring that I would be unable to do so because I was a liar. I did so, on your demand remember, and now - instead of apologizing - you are calling me a liar again.

This is all, btw, stereotypical behavior - common, standard, and met with by me every couple days on these forums - from the bubbledwellers in the US Republican propaganda zone. Do you have any idea how many people have called me a liar for making perfectly plain observations about their posts as quoted word for word? I don't - I've lost count. The people who have swallowed the Republican media feed whole, and genuinely believe in that bothsides bs, are not playing with a full deck - one must make allowances.

Look at this typical post from that crowd:

I don't.
Which is why you did not provide a quote, an example, or any reasoning, that would make that out of context quote applicable - just a ranting few lines of bs from under your rock, entertainingly way off target (I suspect by accident - you don't seem to know what I was even talking about, or you wouldn't have provided the tour de force irony of your response.It looks like four levels of self-exposure, by the last repetition. That's gotta be some kind of record).

Can't say I don't try. And I harbor hope: Are you sure everyone here is as clueless, reactionary, and lacking in self-awareness as you guys?

 

I actually thanked you a few times for your insight. You just can’t handle when someone disagrees with you. You’re the only one in this thread insulting and ranting. You’re usually the only one, I’ve noticed.

You’ve been doing this for years on here. Anyone can go through the thread and see your escalated attacks and I wasn’t attacking you. But I will defend myself. And you have lied about me. No one is threatening you lol

I’d like you to leave me alone. That’s a request. Nearly every time I log in, you post an insulting attacking post at me, the threads vary. And my comment to you is that you act superior to those of us who live in the US. You don’t know entirely the full picture of life in the US and that’s not an insult. My “I don’t care what you say,” wasn’t a part of that - it meant you seem to think this two party system is great and I don’t. You would laugh at anyone here who would conduct themselves in the way you do, constantly schooling you on what life is really like for you, in your country. (But they only get their facts from opinionated news sources) Yea you know so much about my life in America. You know nothing about me, that I’m middle eastern and Italian and my family were once immigrants. You have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to my life. Just like I don’t know yours. I never ever assumed your nationality but you have shared you don’t live in the US. Why do you lie so much??

Anyway, I don’t need to put up with your harassment. Please leave me be, thanks.

 

can we consider banning this word ?

this is like a big-brother-reality-tv thread ...

i can sympathies that given the promotion of ignorance driving policy & science inside the usa political landscape, this must be quite a sore point.

if for example wegs was one of those, which i am not saying yay or nay to.
if.. wegs was, what value would there be in elucidating this ?
such people tend to feather their nest for short sighted collectivism, ...
the socialist-opium-for-the-capitalist-lemmings...

opposing opinions to such people are just reg flags to a bull.

you cant push a true libertarian to take sides
not to be confused with
you cant push an idiot off a cliff they have already jumped off.

 

This is getting to be a little too much to not react to. Iceaura are you being paid to disrupt forums? Is this a mission of yours rather than the pleasant pass time activity that it is meant to be?

Rainbow, you have absolutely no room to be complaining about what words others use. Much of what you write is word salad. I've seen in bits and pieces that you do understand and you are capable of responding in kind.

Two abusive posters who don't live in the U.S. calling anyone they disagree with "Republican". From what I see most posters in here certainly aren't "Republican".

 

In fairness, you have echoed certain sentiments which are part and parcel of the Republican propaganda machine--particularly as regards the "both sides" myth. I'm not gonna do an exhaustive survey of your posting here, rather, I'll just provide a single example of what I am referring to:

(from here <<<

No reasonable person would dispute that there are racists within both the Republican and Democrat parties--nor that both parties are, to a degree, corrupt. What is problematic is the failure to acknowledge the respective degrees of racism and corruption. Racism and xenophobia are integral to the Republican party of today (and of the past 30-40 years). As are misogyny, an extreme form of classism which very nearly parallels the caste system of India, an anti-science agenda--particularly with respect to where science conflicts with the interests of corporate capitalism, and a hypocritical allegiance to the radical evangelical voting base ("I love the poorly educated" --Trump).

Insofar as the contemporary Republican party can be said to have any sort of ideological foundation, that would have to be fascism--which is, really, very much not an ideology.

As far as corruption goes and serving the interests of the people, well, consider the following:

On one hand, Al Franken was compelled to resign--by his Democratic peers--after several allegations of sexual misconduct.

On the other, we've got President Serial Rapist, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Roy Moore (Trump's non-endorsement was strictly political--no mention of all the rapey stuff)... well, this aspect alone could fill volumes.

Or---and again, we'll go with Al Franken: asked to resign by most of his Democratic peers.

Donald Trump has been saying and doing racist shit for the past half-century, but let's just consider his egregiously racist actions and words during his presidency. Has he faced any criticism on that front from his Republican peers? How many have even used the term "racist" to describe? Oh, yes, for Repub House members formally "rebuked" Trump last week--200-odd did not.

From memory, can you think of any situation in recent history wherein a Republican has demanded accountability from another?

This could go on for pages and pages, but I'm really not one for ... conversation. But the point is: 40, 50 years ago, this "both sides do it" stuff might have held water, but no longer. The Republican party is corrupt through and through, and serve only the interests of their own--mostly, very wealthy white men.

Few of us are all gung-ho for the Democrats, but they are at least legitimate. And sane (mostly--certainly not with respect to their consideration, and prioritization, of climate change as the foremost, immanent existential threat, but...). And some actually do seem to care for their constituency.

So until a viable Libertarian Socialist party gains some serious traction, I'm gonna support the Democrats--even if they are seriously lame.

 

I've posted throughout this thread, that I'm not a Republican nor a Trump supporter. But, I've also stated that I'm looking for a news outlet that reports facts, and leaves political opinion out of it. Perhaps it's the accusation that I'm parroting ''Republican propaganda'' which doesn't make much sense to me, considering that I've recently been wanting to gain a better understanding of current events without the spin, and have formed my opinions about Republicans and Democrats, from my own experiences and observations. I've recently wanted to take a more active approach in current events, which was what prompted the genesis of this thread.

I'm well aware that Trump is a disturbed narcissist whose views are racist and misogynistic, but until Republicans step up and express outrage as we have about his conduct, nothing changes. But, Trump is a symptom for a bigger problem, and that is his constituency. It's worth noting that he gained favor in Democratic states, as well. So, Trump is a symptom to a far greater problem, imo.

Voting for a Democrat is always an option, but I believe that the system itself is broken. I'd like to see a grassroots effort be put forth in support of an Independent, or better yet - the Libertarian party would be a refreshing change. This isn't Republican propaganda, this is my viewpoint. I don't spend time in the political threads on here, because the arguments from what I've observed, come down to Republicans vs Democrats...and what else is new.

This thread was designed to learn if there are news outlets that I'm completely unaware of, that can offer me facts without the spin. If I'm an innocent bystander reading through this thread, it would seem that if one isn't supportive of the Democratic party, then he/she might as well be a Republican. Am I interpreting that correctly?

I lean in agreement with more policies on the Democratic side, but I feel that Independents or Libertarians have a better long term vision. From what I can see of the Democratic candidates campaigning right now, they seem to be reactionaries, which I guess is fine because their goal is to get Trump out of office. Now, if AOC were running, I'd think differently. She has fresh new ideas, that I agree with.

Speaking of AOC, she ran a grassroots campaign and won against a long standing Democrat who was known for being lazy, apathetic, and borderline corrupt. It will take a grassroots effort like that, to potentially introduce a new party in the mix as a legit contender. Will such a contender be what the US needs? Only time will tell, but we'll never know as long as the only two strongest options before us on election day, are to vote for either a Republican or Democrat. (There are other options, of course, but if I don't vote Democrat or Republican, will that be like giving a vote to Trump? I'm not quite sure, to be honest. So, I'm left voting Democrat to be on the safe side, voting against Trump instead of ''for'' a party of my choice.) That's not Republican propaganda, that's my view.

Back to the original topic of this thread - if this thread is any indication, we all share facts as we know them to be, mixed with our opinions. Maybe it is an impossibility to believe that a news outlet exists that could be completely free from opinion, and only reports the facts.

 

I agree with you about a viable Libertarian Socialist party being a good option, but how will it ever gain traction if the primary focus continuously goes to Democratic candidates? I guess my question is, what can we do as everyday citizens to help improve the visibility of a potential Libertarian candidate?

 

I don't think that is the correct interpretation to take from this thread.

I think people here have been trying to warn you that you might be falling for a right-wing trick designed to keep them in power. They want you to believe that the media is reporting "opinions" rather than facts. That is their get-out-of-jail-free card, because that way when a fact is reported, e.g. Trump Lied Again, you might think it is just someone's opinion. This is why they throw around the "fake news" accusation all the time.

Some good news sources have been given in this thread. Just don't expect those sources to "balance" reporting Trump's lies by also digging up some slightly inaccurate statement that some Democrat might have said, just for the sake of 'both sides do it'. Remember that Fox News claims to be "balanced," which is just another way of saying that they will go out of their way to do just that, (except for the part about reporting Trump's lies, they conveniently skip that part).

I was around some Trump supporters, and I mentioned that Trump lies constantly. Their immediate response was, "Every politician lies," and "What about Bill Clinton saying I never had sex with that woman." Think about that for a moment. It's okay with them that Trump lies constantly every day, because back in 1998, over 20 years ago, one semi-lie was told by Bill Clinton. That demonstrates the power of the 'both sides do it' myth which people here have been trying to warn you about.

 

Your explanation comes across with tact, so I appreciate it. And, I see what you're saying.

But, I know Trump is lying. I'm not a Trump supporter, and I realize that there are news affiliates who sing his praises. I don't follow those too closely, but the point of this thread came about (in part) because I realized that the tactics of the right media, are to confuse the general public and try to influence us. If I were on the fence with my views, I might be swayed, but meh. I'm not a supporter of Trump...and never will be.

Maybe they're betting on fence sitters.

That said, there are left news outlets who focus on Trump, and while that's fine, I just don't want to hear '' Trump is at it again...'' as an example. I just want the news, without the spin.

But, spin gets ratings. I realize that these networks are businesses. That said, I'll find my silver lining in the clouds.

Good points, Neddy. I just want ''clean news,'' without any spin. Or close to no spin. Maybe the media believes that it needs to spoon feed us, but I'm good.

 

I think there are several issues here. We now have "news" programming 24/7 so they have to fill up air time so you will hear the same things over and over because of that.

Related to that, most "news" programming is editorial or opinion based so of course it is biased. Straight news reporting is decent from most sources.

Regarding Democrats, Republicans, Independents...the underlying problem is bigger than which party do you pick. The two main parties have major funding from various corporations and that is the underlying problem (undue influence).

The 3rd parties don't win because they just split the vote and because they don't have that kind of funding. If they did have that kind of funding they would be just as unduly influenced as the existing parties and therefore no real improvement.

If it was possible to get real campaign reform though Congress, you wouldn't need a 3rd party. You have to address the real problem.

 

I agree with you on the campaign reform issue, but grouping the "two main parties" together, without making any distinction between them, is once again reinforcing the "bothsides" myth.

Consider the Affordable Care Act passed under Obama, who was of course a Democrat. It could be said that donations from the insurance industry influenced him to get more people to buy health insurance, but it also included passing regulations on the health insurance industry. Either way, it helped people, in general.

Now consider the response to the Affordable Care Act by all of the Republicans, including Trump. Without offering any replacement plan at all, they tried every trick in the book (and still are trying them) to repeal it or get it deemed unconstitutional. The reason is either because they don't want the regulations on the insurance companies, or because they just want to take away Obama's achievement out of sheer meanness, without any regard for the people who would be affected by their recklessness.

Clearly there is a big difference between the "two sides" and they are not the same by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I don't really have to concern myself as to whether someone will feel that my comments reenforce the "both sides" myth.

That's their interpretation but I don't have to let it influence how I speak. It's true that they aren't both the same but in the particular aspect that I'm referring to...they are both the same. They both are unduly influenced by corporate interests.

Take that out and they will both be more representative of the people. They won't both be the same and that's good or we should just have one party. The Republican Party is currently much inferior IMO to the Democratic Party but I can't get too excited by the current state of that party either.

People would be better off not worrying so much about how their remarks might be interpreted and instead should just present their point. Your point might be that one party is a lot better than the other party (and I might agree) but that wasn't the particular point that I was interested in making.

 

All of this ^^

The two parties offer different policies (Democrats’ ideas seem more favorable) but, both pander to corporate interests which leads them to not looking out for the best interests of the US, in my opinion.

 

True, and my intention was not to try to influence how you speak. I agreed with the particular point you were making, which was that campaign finance reform would be a better solution than voting for third party candidates. My intention was to say that however flawed the current campaign donation system may be, it does not dictate 100% how policies are made, at least not by both parties equally.

 

True, however that is faint praise for the one party.

 

Which is why I gave the example of the Affordable Care Act, which included regulations preventing insurance companies from denying people health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. It is an example showing that both parties do not pander equally to corporate interests.