What make us human beings!?!?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by TruthSeeker, Feb 1, 2002.

  1. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Avatar,
    I can't change beliefs. I can only tell you those things, but if you belive or not thats up to you. It's your beliefs...

    ismu,
    There is intuition too. Look for Albert Einsten's quotes...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    One example:
    Albert Einstein

    I can't reply anymore. I will have to stop replying for some days. I've come back to school and hardly have time to rest (as usual...).
    So, please, don't reply it, at least until weekend.

    Blessings,
    Nelson
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,188
    truthseeker,

    It is good you are looking to Einstein for more rational guidance in your life.

    Here are some more quotes for you to consider –

    You would do worse than to follow in the footsteps of Einstein and make an effort to learn to use logic, reason, and the scientific method. In that way you might find the real truth that you claim to seek rather than the imagined truth that you have been preaching here.

    Cris
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Counterbalance Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    373
    Quote # 3... one of my favs.

    Thx, Cris.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    The Word is Wise

    Einstein was wrong in some things.

    One example that I got from the book: Galaxies and Quasars by William J. Kaufmann

    "Although he had a more accurate theory of gravity, Einstein was frustaded in his attemptes to construct mathematical models of the universe. No one had any suspicion of large-scale motions in the universe, so Einstein labored to formulate static models. His efforts met with failure; his mathematical universes would always collapse. Instead of having faith in his calculations (his formulas were really telling him that we do not live in a static universe), Einstein began to doubt the validity of his equations. Accordingly, he added to his equations a special number, called the cosmologic constant, that would prevent his static universe from collapsing. This cosmological constant represents a long-range cosmic force (not detectable over short distances in a laboratory) that litterally holds the universe up.
    By forcing his models of the universe to be static, Einstein missed the opportunity to anticipate Hubble's discovery by at least a decade. By 1929, it was clear that we really live in an expanding universe. No wonder static models never seemed to work out. In later years, Einstein lamented that including the cosmological constant in the basic field equations of general relativety was "the biggest mistake of my life"."

    Galaxies and Quasars by William J. Kaufmann pages 116,117

    Of course Einstein was brilliant, but anyone can be right everytime. It's interesting to see how a religious word here (faith) is applyed to scientific matters...
    This is the exact opposite of Aristoteles ideas about the Earth as the center of the universe. The difference, is that Aristoteles' religious beliefs made him do his mistake, and Einstein's scientifical beliefs made him do his. If Einsteins believed in Religion, he would have accepted the idea of an expanding universe. But he though the universe as a perfect mathematical static thing, which is very scientifical.
    It's like his thoughs about black holes. People in those days would say that black holes are pure imagination. They would blame our beliefs. And this is the source of all the discussions of the world. Everyone has their own beliefs and want to make it true to others.

    But as you grow up, your beliefs become more self-centered (not in a selfish way. I mean in a more awareness about yourself and your place in the world). They start to explain your life related to yourself and not yourself related to your car, or money, for example. You become self-aware as you grow up.

    THIS IS WHAT I MEANT FOR THIS THREAD.

    What makes us human beings, is our self-awareness, our self-conscience.

    This is what Religion call God, Spirit and Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is th first. Is the "comforter" as we, Christians calls. Is our growing up awareness. Spirit follows. Is our biggest self-awareness. Your deepest qualties that you never realized that you had. God is the biggest "self"-awareness. You become aware of yourself related to other people.

    As you can see, Religion is more self-centered and self related. And it bases you in life principles such as Simplicity, Honestity, Generosity, Compassion and Humility. As you grow up centering your lifes with this principles, you become more aware about yourself and how you relate yourself with other people and with your life.

    If Einstein had seeked the Truth within him, he would never had mistaken. But he had contact with Religion too, and this is proved by his talks about Intuition, which is a very Religious-related thing. That time, he didn't followed it. And that time, he was mistaken.

    This is the Wisdom of Religion. It seeks Truth within ourselves. And wherelse It should be?

    Blessings,
    Nelson (TruthSeeker...!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    )
     
  8. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    I hate to be the shallow one... but what makes us human is the fact that we can't breed with apes.

    We also do seem to be the most cognitively advanced creatures on this particular planet (although a dolphin might disagree)... but that's just an attribute most humans have (and the severely mentally retarded are still human even if they lack this attribute and are actually dumber than a chimp).

    We love to look for what makes us unique, and then we decide those things must be important since we like to think we're important. In reality, we're well below insects and bacteria and single celled creatures when it comes to dominance on the planet. They're still better adapted as species to life here than we are.
     
  9. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    That's a mess up! If you think there a kind of insect which can survive on the mountains, dessert, river, ocean to arctic, just name 1! Human can, just because we use our thought to make tools to survive. Other creatures on earth is provided for us as our servant, unverse is provided as evidence for us to learn.

    If you have faith, we're montioned by God to live on earth to be leader on earth, as His ambassador. We were given authority, duty, freedom, responsibility, and intelligence as tool to manage our earth. Earth may become bautiful or ruined depends on human decision. We can blow up the whole earth right away by tenth of nuclear bombs, if we insane enough to speed up the doomday. That's the fact. We're blessed a super weapon which no other creature have: mind, a tought, an intelligence! Self-awareness and self-consciousnes is one of results of our tought!, as a result of intelligence, not as a prime cause which make us human being.

    Alas, being dominance on the planet is not a sign of leadership. Animal nature, such as wild passion which distract our decision to act will lowering our humanity. Being wise, use intelligence to conquer wild passion and selfish desire, and to believe on Unseen Mighty by learning evidence of universe, is an objective: Are we appropriate to be titled as human being, or only worth as smartest animal on earth...
     
  10. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    You know, humans cannot exist without bacteria. If you take all the bacteria out of out bodies, we die. Bacteria lives and reproduces at amazing rates in every environment from Antarctic cold to temperatures above the boiling point. So, they're certainly a lot better evolutionarily adapted than we are. We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.
     
  11. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    you take all the bacteria out of out bodies, we die.

    As i mentioned: Other creatures on earth is provided for us as our servant, including to work inside our body.

    Bacteria lives and reproduces at amazing rates in every environment from Antarctic cold to temperatures above the boiling point.

    Name one bacteria can live in boling point more than 10 minutes! If you can.
    Some viruses can, but virus must live in other live form. I'ts 'crystalyzed' itsef outside living cell. But i'ts gonna fried into fire.
    Human can get into the fire! by wearing fire-proof suit he created as result of Intelligence!

    We could even send the planet into a nuclear winter and it wouldn't bother them.

    Whose in charge then?

    Btw, winning in survival is not sign of humanity. Dead people who leave wonderful thought still remebered as wise human being.
     
  12. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    Since we don't have the capability of making bacteria extinct, every hydrogen bomb in the world detonated at once would hardly even make any dent in their population, it seems it's not us in charge.

    Who's in charge? No one really if you ask me, the universe doesn't need a babysitter to be in charge of it (it's old enough now), but I guess you could say the planet is in charge in that case since it'd not support our life anymore if we did such a thing to it.

    I agree, actually I dislike how people sometimes talk about evolution (survival as a species) as a process towards achieving perfection. Evolution doesn't care what it results in, it's meaningless, it's just observation of patterns of life over time and shouldn't have value attached to its results. Also it's a common misconception that it's "survival of the fittest" when it's actually just survival of the fit.

    Anyhow, your perspective on what makes people human makes sense given the premis of an all-powerful being who declared us to be in charge. That's fine, but without that premis the distinctions between human and animal wouldn't be as obvious as they might seem. For example some animals show evidence of intelligence (ability to innovate), and there's no secular reason to assume they don't have minds and don't think.
     
  13. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    579
    An excellent point Hoth! We have more "things" living either in or on our body than there are humans on this planet. Also, as the biologist E.O. Wilson likes to point out, by body weight ants are cumulatively the predominant species on this planet.

    Michael
     
  14. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    Hoth...

    Since we don't have the capability of making bacteria extinct, every hydrogen bomb in the world detonated at once would hardly even make any dent in their population, it seems it's not us in charge.

    Yes, we have capability. We can build enough bomb if we want to. Did you heard about device which can be tuned up to sepecific frequency that can kill specified bacteria without harming human itself? But by making bacteria extinct it will also kill all of us. So it doesn't necessary to do. That's one of our result of intelligent decicion to survive.

    You misundersand with this. I mean we still in charge! We can do anything with this bacteria, and it can refuse to be sent.

    For example some animals show evidence of intelligence (ability to innovate), and there's no secular reason to assume they don't have minds and don't think.

    In the technical context, yes. Intelligence is ability to process information, and create decisions as it's results.
    In bilogical context, Yes. The difference of human and apes is just because we can't make babies with it.
    But in philosophical context, No.
    Intelligence wich is worth to called as human intelligence is intelligence wich able to control passion, and instink, and natural behaviour.
    Have you read my post in 1st page? I also talk about it in this thread .

    bye.
     
  15. esp Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    908
    The closest we'll come to utopia:

    Planitia fleetyards, Mars.

    The world where everyone loves everyone. How I would hate it.
    Imagine a world populated with Ned Flanders.

    Every day would be just like the last. It would be pretty much the same as being in captivity. No human generated troubles to overcome. No ambition in case we hurt someone in the process.

    No goals. No truth. No absolute honesty.

    Without evil, there can be no good.
    Does it not follow that without hate there can be no love?

    I am in no way a misanthropist. Just a realist.

    I think, therefor I am

    Isn't this because I am thinking, I must be?

    Or another version:
    I'm pink. Therefore I'm spam



    Human is as Human does.

     
  16. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    Just as an observation, I'd call "I think, therefore I am" bad logic. By saying "I think" the conclusion has already been assumed before proving it. Using your conclusion to draw your conclusion doesn't get you anywhere, it's pointless. I'd rephrase it to something more along these lines: There are thoughts being directly observed/experienced, therefore there is something observing the thoughts, and that logically existing something may be defined as the self.

    Ismu, "able to control passion, and intinct, and natural behaviour" would be pretty hard to prove to exist in humans if you were an alien race looking in from the outside and were presuming your superiority as you looked. Anything at all can be termed "natural behaviour" if you take a deterministic approach. You can't say you did something unnatural if that particular thought and action were simply caused by various complex physical factors going back to the big bang. I would say we should be more consistent and if we don't apply determinism to ourself it's a mistake to apply it to animals. You may just be ignoring the unnatural behavior of animals because you automatically assume it's determinstic and therefore naturally caused for them.

    Dolphins and chimps seem to have advanced mental capacity, I'd guess they may only differ from us by degree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2002
  17. ismu ::phenomenon::. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    468
    Re: The closest we'll come to utopia:

    Originally posted by esp

    Human is as Human does.

    I agree with this. Good shoot, esp

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    . Perhaps i've been mistaken 'human' with 'humanity'. Btw, we still can call a human with no humanity is a living meat isn't it?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Yeah... that would be really bad...

    That's true...
    But the Truth creates peace.
    And Truth, Love, Harmony and Wisdom are pretty much the same thing.

    Wouldn't be nice live in peace and Love?

    Live within Truth is live in peace, and without boredom. The power of Truth is so great that all possibilities in the Universe happens at the same place and in the same time.

    Don't stop thinking or you'll die!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Just joking...
    Thinking is not so important. You exist because you breath, not because you think. And you exist because your heart beats according to your brain (autonomic sytem, not because of your thinking). Imagine with you start to run. Won't you heart automatically beats faster?

    Is not your thinking that makes you exist, but your own desire to be a living being (If you want, you can kill yourself, but I'm sure you won't)...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I would say...
    I feel, therefore I am.

    Blessings,
    Nelson
     

Share This Page