What is your solution?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Seattle, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Most people here probably aren't satisfied with the status quo (politically speaking). What is your assessment of what is wrong and how would you fix it?

    I'm in the U.S. and therefore U.S. national politics is what I'm thinking of but feel free to answer the question as it applied to your situation where ever you reside.
     
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  3. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    So are you saying there is something wrong with the political system? From what I keep hearing our political system is the best in the world, and that it may not be perfect but it's still the best. So this is what we have. The 2 candidates we have now may not be the best we've ever had, and may indeed be the worst we've ever had, but from what I keep hearing the system apparently works. The political system is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. So we'll just pick one of the 2 candidates for president this coming November like we have always done in the past and we'll just keep on doing what we've always been doing.
     
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  5. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Are spaniards not better off without government?
     
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  7. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I think people are rebelling against the system, both left and right. And judging from our presidential choices, things are not improving. Let's face it, the only reason Hillary is winning is because she is the second most hated person in America.

    The only person I "Liked" in this race is Sanders. Not because I agree with his socialist agenda, but because I believed he was a good person who honestly had good intentions that were not politically motivated. That's probably the worst possible reason to side with a candidate, but my choices were pretty slim. I think Hillary is the worst possible choice for president because her decisions will be based on gaining political points rather than what is actually good for the country, which is typical of a career politician. I believe she would allow our inner cities to burn down to the ground if it furthered her ambitions. Trump? His ego scares the hell out of me, but I do believe he introduced a measure of anarchy to the political stage that chimed with a lot of people. He's doing a lot of damage to the conservative party along the way, and I'm not certain it will recover any time soon.
    I am seeing a movement in the background. It's coming from a wide spectrum of political and social influences. The one thing they seem to be united against is the progressive left, the new authoritarians who do actually threaten liberty. I'm not certain they can form a political movement based on that common enemy, and their differing views on other issues may prevent them from coming together, but I think it's hopeful.

    I am thinking on what my wife said when we tuned in to the most recent debate: "Can we just start over?"
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,261
    I think some reform to the system is needed. Not Constitution amendments just institutional reform. It's not easy to do when the regulators and the regulated are the same people (Congress). Congress needs reform.

    The two party system isn't really helping anyone either. Government really should be, or or less, a nonpartisan thing. We need our garbage picked up, some law and order, and our fires put out. Everything isn't a partisan issue.

    With parties, the average citizen takes his/her eye off the ball by arguing with the other "team" all the while the politicians represent no one other than themselves and who ever is paying for their reelection.

    People have so much hate for Clinton or Trump when the fact is neither are going to represent the average citizen. Politicians don't spend much time actually trying to make the government more efficient and useful. Most of their time is spent marketing themselves and worrying about reelection.

    Being "reasonable" is actually counterproductive as their parties want them to be ideology pure and not to compromise with the "enemy".

    We need representatives that are practical and not ideological and a system that rewards that. Being a politician shouldn't be a lifelong career.
     
  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Unfortunately people disagree on priorities beyond basic services, how those priorities will be enforced, and who will pay for them.
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Government itself is the root of the problem. The solution is to severely limit it. This can be started by ending the Federal Reserve.
    The foundation for a prosperous society is relatively simple:
    - sound moneys derived through free trade
    - laws that protect private property and uphold contract
    - freedom to trade with others
     
  11. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    Which is most likely why he didn't make it.

    Yes we can!

    I respectively disagree.
     
  12. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    4,990
    Pacifism with out non-violence. The true calling of religion and faith.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It's very easy to say people are rebelling against the amorphous "system", but what does that mean? People are living longer and healthier than at anytime in human history. Violence and crime rates are at historical lows. People are working less and have more leisure time than at any time in human history. They are earning more; they have more disposable income that at anytime in human history. Unemployment in the US is basically nil. Every indicator shows the US is at or near full employment. So just what is the reason for the discontent? What is the reason for this rebellion? What changed?

    And why is Hilary the most second most hated person in America? What has Hilary done to merit that distinction? I'm not looking for warmed over political rhetoric. I'm looking for well founded reasons.

    I liked and I still like Sanders and for similar reasons. But it takes more than just good intentions. One has to be able to take those good intentions and craft them into results. That's not Sander's strong point. That's Hilary's strong point. As much as you and others may dislike it in democracies, you need "political points" to get things done, and as long as humans are humans that will continue to be the case. Should Trump become POTUS, God forbid, he would need political points too. Now, there is another option. It's the Putin option. You turn the country into an autocracy in which case the supreme leader doesn't need political points to get things done. He just needs guns, prisons, and a few thousand thugs to enforce his will. And there is every indication that Trump prefers the latter. That's probably one of the reasons for the Putin-Trump bromance. They have similar outlooks on governance.

    Unfortunately for folks like you, there is no indication that Hilary and Nero are related or even remotely similar. Do you really think inner city dwellers would overwhelmingly cast their vote for someone who would burn down their homes and threaten their lives or do you believe that inner city dwellers are just not smart enough to be able to discern the true Hilary and make decisions about their own welfare? It's apparent many Republicans, completely without merit, believe the latter.

    Trump's ego and more specifically his pathological narcissism should scare you. It should scare everyone, especially every red blooded American. If you think things are bad now, just put a narcissistic personality disordered person in the Oval Office.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

    Yeah, Trump is doing a lot of damage to the Republican Party. But he is just the symptom. There is an underlying pathology at work within the Republican Party which allowed Trump to become the party's nominee. After the Republican Party's last presidential failure, the Republican Party produced a post mortem report detailing what went wrong and what Republicans needed to do in order to win this election. They never saw Trump coming. Trump blindsided Republicans and trampled all of their carefully crafted plans.

    I think you are seeing what you want to see. I don't see a significant movement united against the left. The alt right has always been against the left, but it has always been a minority. What I do see is a right wing party in its death throes. The left is united. The American right isn't. It is deeply fractured, and that fracture isn't healing anytime soon. Trump's supporters constitute between 35% and 43% of the electorate and that includes some fringe Trump supporters - people who only support Trump because he isn't Hilary Clinton. That's far from a majority. I think Trump's hardcore support, based on polling, is something like 15% to 33% of the electorate. That's still a big number, but it is far from being a wave.

    No. Like it or not it is what it is. Now we can always change course. But where do you want to go? What needs to be improved? What needs to be changed and why? Why do you think the current path is wrong and why? What would be better?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Why? Why are they not satisfied? That's the question that needs to be answered. By virtually all measures, things are better than they have ever been. So why are people dissatisfied? I think the answer is very simple and vary apparent. It's information. In the age of information, people are overwhelmed and confused, and information has become weaponized as evidenced by Russia's interference in our elections.

    A famous American was frequently noted for saying, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.". Well, thanks to changes in how we receive our information people can have their own set of facts, e.g. the Republican entertainment industry. A clear demonstration of that is the fact that 75% of Republicans believe Obama was born in Kenya. Because of changes in how we receive our information which makes our information more vulnerable to misinformation, it make us as a country more vulnerable to manipulation, and that's probably the single largest threat we face as a nation. You try telling a "Birther" that Obama was really born in Hawaii. Unfortunately, for a large chuck of the population facts no longer matter.

    I'm not sure how we fix that problem, but I think we begin by restoring the "Fairness Doctrine" which required media outlets to provide open and fair discussion of all issues of national importance.

    Two, and this kind of gets back to the first, we need a better informed voters. I think a voter information packet mailed to each registered voter prior to election day which spells out the issues with some independent nonpartisan research and pros and cons from each side. This was done in California and California may still be doing it. A well informed voter is critical to democracy. Our children need better schools. Our children need to know enough to be able to act as responsible citizens, and sadly that isn't case today. Our children should know something about macroeconomics, unfortunately they don't.

    Three, I think we need to make government more transparent and accountable. To do that, we need to change the way we elect our public officials. We need to take special interest money out of our politics. Our public officials both elected and appointed, should have but one loyalty and that should be the country and the people they are constitutionally suppose to represent. Conflict of interest requirements should be greatly enhanced and expanded to include family members. Public officials shouldn't be sleeping with lobbyists, e.g. Justice Thomas. Our public officials both elected and appointed should be free of conflicts of interests.

    Elections should be publicly funded.

    And finally, voters need to hold themselves accountable. Instead of just complaining, they need to keep themselves informed. They need to hold themselves for the veracity of their beliefs. They need to be open to receiving the truth. Voters need to hold themselves as well as their representatives and government officials accountable. People should be good citizens. Citizenship was once taught in schools. It's something we need to get back to.

    There are many crucial issues like the electrical grid and climate change which need to be addressed, and they aren't in no small part owing to the the deficiencies in our governance.

    Our problems begin and end with ourselves. Most importantly, we need to hold ourselves accountable instead of blaming our neighbors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    http://spectator.org/10-reasons-why-i-will-never-vote-for-hillary-clinton/

    At risk of being rhetorical, she's a meme for everything that is wrong with politics.

    I think we need take a look at what Clinton has actually accomplished in her career...
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437949/hillary-clinton-accomplishments-not-much
    The difference between Sanders and Clinton is character. Where Sanders would stand principle, Clinton would lie in your face.

    They are going to get what they want.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

    Agreed.



    I think the Alt Right is an interesting phenomena since it appears to be pulling in so many people from the spectrum. People are trying to define it and label those involved as having one specific political agenda, but I don't believe it can be so neatly defined. We will see where it goes.
     
  16. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    He didn't have much of a chance considering his own party was working against him.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is the general consensus up here in Canada.

    A three party system allows for coalition governments, which, ideally, means more can get done.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    While I'm not that up with American politics, the first thing that has struck me with Hillary, was the way a few years ago, she handled the scandal involving her husband with such dignity.
    As an Aussie and having many friends left and right of the political spectrum, [and I mean extreme left to extreme right

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    ] I can honestly say that I have not yet met anyone who has had anything complimentary to say about Trump: Not even anything that could be interpreted as anywhere near nice.
    The average Aussie truly views him as an arrogant, oafish, buffoon.

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  20. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Yet so much about Hillary is ignored.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    So does the average Canadian.

    And, while we're at it, the average American.

    I think Trump's support comes, not from liking him, but from a hatred of what they see as a very broken political system - into which they would like to see a stick of dynamite tossed.
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    6,977
    A leader with the balls to stand up to the M.I.C. and it's militaristic corruption of this nation, then

    • A Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress
    • A hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health)
    • A requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated
    • A five year ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service
    • A lifetime ban on the White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government
    • A complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections
    • Cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America’s water and environmental infrastructure
     
  23. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    6,865
    1. An aptitude test on the letter of constitutional law to earn federal voting rights.

    2. A ban on all campaign advertising. Voters can decide based on media interviews and debates...aka substance!
     
    sculptor likes this.

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