What is your 'idea of GOD'?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by hansda, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly how do I not understand the evolution of the universe since the theorized Big Bang?
    Citing a personal opinion as a global fact is totally unacceptable in serious discussion.
    Evolution of early life on this planet
    ~wiki
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    eh? You ask me what that sentence says to me, and so I told you, that you (I.e. Whoever said the statement) either misunderstands evolution or assigns it meaningless qualities.
    And now you say "who cares what I think!" and further down accuse me of being handicapped regarding simple comprehension?
    You're losing it, QQ.
    If you start talking about human evolution, as we were, then you imply within that usage of evolution far more than mere change.
    You are now trying to equivocate evolution with mere change.
    Do you not see that there is a difference in meaning?
    Had you begun by talking about human change then applied that to the universe changing, no disagreement (until we get in to the nature of that change).
    Ah yes, accuse me earlier of not supporting claims, and here you are not supporting claims... again.
    Spot the irony?
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    on what authority do you base your personal opinion?
     
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  7. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    By the simple fact that you think that, in how he same way humans have evolved, the universe has also evolved.
    It hasn't.
    In the same way that an individual human evolves over time (grows, matures, decays et) yes, the universe has evolved.
    But to apply human evolution (as in the gradual change from single cell to human form over the billions of years) to the universe, as you tried to do, and continue to do, is meaningless, and to do so as you have done is mere equivocation.
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    and why should I take your opinion seriously?
    on what authority do you base your opinion...?
    or should I say "Opigion" ~ opnions given from a state of ignorance.
     
  9. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    It is not a personal opinion that you asked me for my opinion: it is evidenced in the posts, and can be considered fact.
    If you're referring to my personal opinion that you're losing it? On the authority of the evidence of your posts, and your apparent confusion as to asking me my opinion and then saying "who cares!" as if wondering why I gave my opinion.
     
  10. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I gave the logic for why it is not possible.
    Dispute the logic if you will.

    And no one is forcing you to take anything seriously.
    Whether you do or not is entirely up to you.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You have serious problem with gramma here... care to try again...
     
  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hi QQ :wave:

    I haven't scrolled through some of the more recent posts, but I seem to recall you mentioning your beliefs, as to who/what ''a god'' may/may not be, in an entirely different thread. Didn't we have a discussion not too long ago about pantheism? Forgive me, I may be confusing you with another poster, for there are a number of threads relating to 'god' on this site; hard to keep straight at times, everyone's assertions. haha

    May I ask, do you hold a pantheistic viewpoint as to your own ''idea'' of ''God''?
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Given that Pantheism is loosely defined as "Physical universe and all that is holds = God" yes I guess I trend towards Pantheism.
    I believe that the term God is a metaphor for all that is, and is a physical material and functioning entity other wise referred to by science as "the universe".
    I do not believe the universe has sentience nor do I believe it has a will to action in it's own right. However it does offer influences that impact at an instinctive and intuitive level that could be interpreted justifiably and easily as divine or that of divinity.
    The personification of self in reflection is often mistaken for God
     
  14. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    There is nothing wrong with the grammar in that sentence. It may sound clumsy with two "opinions", but is grammatically correct. Let me italicise parts of it to help with your comprehension:
    It is not my opinion that you asked me for my opinion: it is evidenced in the posts, and can [even] be considered fact.

    I added the word "even" to emphasise the meaning of how you asking me for my opinion could actually be considered fact.

    Now, are we going to move past this little breakdown, or just continue to throw petty barbs at each other, which does nothing for this thread?
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    nah that sentence sucks man... and you know it...
    "it's not my personal opnion that you asked for my opinion" wtf! that is strange lingo man...:}
    Did I actually ask you for your opinion? or did I imply that your opinion was requested?
    Did you state what you stated as an opinion or did you state it as a fact?
    Why do you think your opinion of evolution is correct and mine false when you have taken my opinion out of context?
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, I think I got much more than my money's worth from your reply, here.

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    Wow, how intriguing.

    Only point I somewhat disagree with however, is your take on the universe not being sentient. I don't think that the word denotes that the universe has a 'will of its own.' (you say 'nor' so not sure if you are making the connection but just thought I'd offer that, just the same) Rather, I feel the universe has a connection with all of its inhabitants, each being cognizant of the other, to varying degrees. Do you think so?

    I consider myself agnostic now, not atheist, but pantheism doesn't have to contradict either school of thought, my opinion. (which is really cool!)

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    You don't hear too much about pantheism; some say that Einstein considered himself to be a pantheist, and that he didn't believe in the concept of a 'personal God,' such as the one illustrated in Christianity.

    Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia, and it coincides with what you say here:

    It may also be possible to distinguish two types of pantheism, one being more religious and the other being more philosophical. The Columbia Encyclopedia writes of the distinction:
    "If the pantheist starts with the belief that the one great reality, eternal and infinite, is God, he sees everything finite and temporal as but some part of God. There is nothing separate or distinct from God, for God is the universe. If, on the other hand, the conception taken as the foundation of the system is that the great inclusive unity is the world itself, or the universe, God is swallowed up in that unity, which may be designated nature."


    Anyway, nice chatting -- this is nothing short of fascinating.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    yeah well..uhm...what is your idea of God?
     
  18. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Something separate and away from my above points...

    The 'idea' of a God, or gods...is a very personal one, and perhaps what we sometimes struggle with when explaining our ideas of a god, is that we feel we need to have someone agree with us. Agnosticism, the more I've been learning about it, is not an 'indecisive' belief, but rather one that states rather emphatically...''I don't know if there is a Creator of the universe, an all mighty and all powerful God, but I'm content in not knowing.''

    We sometimes assume in these debates that the struggle is between atheists and theists, or some other such variation, but rather the real struggle is internally, within each of us. The struggle to define who God is for us, as opposed to defining him to others. It is in this realization that I've found my peace, now. I don't feel compelled to correct people as to my beliefs, or to engage in 'the struggle.' It is of no value to me, nor does it edify my life to battle people who have not yet figured out who God even is to them.

    To me, that is where the peace is honestly found. Not in finding 'God,' or thinking you may know who he/she/it is, but rather...embracing that you are content in your own ideas of God. Unfortunately, religions have done a disservice to humankind in terms of challenging that philosophy. Or perhaps that is merely a byproduct of the 'human condition,' this insatiable need we have to compete and 'win' arguments, even if we are not entirely convinced of what we are arguing about, in the end.

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    Sorry for my ramblings, but now that I settle into a contentment with agnosticism, I just wanted to share a slice of that pie with you.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I shall answer this with a question that may be spooky.. ok? [ others have been seriously spooked by it in the past but I will ask it any way. ]
    "Have you ever considered that when you fall unconscious at night that you are sharing the same zero point unconsciousness as every one else when they sleep?"
    "Have you ever considered that there is only one unconsciousness?"

    Now, I am not talking about a dream state but pure unconscousness. The sort of unconsciousness that you might experience when NOT dreaming.


    Panthiesm has the potential to allow the world scientific community and religious community, and others not aligned, to find a middle path that serves each admirably IMO

    Early forms of Tao I believe could be compared reasonably well, those beliefs in the natural order and complexity of things, non-ritualized paganism etc.

    interesting take.
    When I first stumbled upon Pantheism there was virtually no information on the net about it. Wiki was one paragraph. I think there is concern that Pantheism will be dogmatized and become an ideology that requires rules of worship and symbols etc... that has kept people quiet about it.
     
  20. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I admit is sounds clumsy, but the grammar is correct. And there's not many other ways of wording the issue when it is a question of whether it is an opinion that someone asked for an opinion.
    Yes, you asked for it.
    Your exact quote was: "As a test please indicate what this sentence is saying to you."
    As opinion... My response was phrased "[the claim]... says to me that at worse..."
    Where have I taken yours out of context?
    We were discussing intelligence arising from human evolution, and from that you go on to talk about the universe also evolving, with the implication of consistent meaning. I then showed the logic that leads me to conclude that a closed system can not go through such evolution, and merely goes through change.
    You continued to want to apply the term evolution to both humans and the universe, but wanted it to mean different things for each: when talking about human evolution there is an implied mechanism that you didn't want to include when referring to the evolution of the universe.
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

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    And now circular logic isn't circular? Brilliant!
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Part of the problem I believe is that the act or worship is "hard wired into our physical beings, not unlike the standard reflexes tested in new born children. We simply need to worship something is the essence of it.
    A rather good thinker here on sciforums asked why this is so. [about 5 years ago] Why does there appear to be a need to find something to worship, to make sacrifices for, to get on your knees and ask something of. Needless to say he was being brutally honest as he was a staunch atheist... yet a profound thinker. [and probably suffered from depression like so many Westerners seem to do these days]

    I answered that Humans have always worshiped them selves, made sacrifices for them selves. Religious worship is only an externalization of "self worship" "self service" that some smart and often misguided people have decided to capitalize on to build power and esteem for themselves as apart of their own self worship (greed). Sometimes deliberately fraudulent and sometimes simply because we humans tend to blame or make responsible that which is external to ourselves. Thus blaming an external God makes life easier when the blame needs to be held by self an not the reflected self. [like blaming your reflection in the mirror sort of thing.]

    His response to my answer was "bah! so obvious it escaped me"... and he never posted again.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    maybe it 's square logic instead...

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