What is wrong with this world...

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by cosmictotem, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Heh. Do you really think they're more likely to do so than men are?
    The ability of mankind to deceive itself is catered to and exacerbated by this exact kind of Hallmark Card "wisdom".
    You'd be far more wise if you treated women as you would men, without making any distinction between the two.
     
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  3. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    at enjoyment considering the query of the beginnings of this topic for the invitation of the thread. seems here equanamity betwixt men and women really exists, and stray from such is really just decorative 'personally and or interpersonaly. The basis of thread invites wonderance to thesis in reply at perhaps not having enough television station options. And then the reader would gander as to the gist of the thread entry' which leads me to noticeing the 'prosperity of looking at human society: and getting more honest about it's herent and inherent presentations of 'stuckisms> (often stuckist or excessive in somewhat unworthy and often expired language and use of language (s) of the human rappor to itself ' lifesciences of our existence; our behaviorism and behavioristic creativisms that continue to nurture discord,therefore mistake and error, So as to amend before in time we expire ourselves since grander scope has been threatening itself for some time now.
     
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  5. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Grey skies but no rain?

    I agree.
     
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  7. Jason.Marshall Banned Banned

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    If any of you philosophers here have a masters degree and born after 1985 please respond I will provide more detail on reply!
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Too much fiat money growing ever more concentrated in the hands of a few AND too little fresh water.
     
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  9. cosmictotem Registered Senior Member

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    Since posting this thread, I'm kind of embarrassed by my overly dramatic subject line. Science education is still, indeed, a problem but, in hindsight, I sound a little hysterical and dramatic about it with this thread. Sorry if this came across as unworthy of a science forum. I will try to check this tendency in the future.
     
  10. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I missed that post, but in US it is the local funding of elementary school, that is making US students less equipped for the modern world than all most all other nations we compete with. Poor neighborhoods would need to pay teacher MORE to attract even average quality teachers (They don't want to be abused etc.) but can not even pay as well as average income neighborhoods do. Cannot even afford to fix the broken windows or eliminate the rats eating the few torn books still not stolen in the library.

    Many of these under educated students get by illegally and end up in jails, where their per-capita cost to society annually is more than the tuition at Ivy league universities is*. The rich and powerful like this system - many willing workers and maids they can pay less to hire and their kids go to private schools. USA refuses to learn from other advanced nations that public funding of good schools for ALL from the national level is essential. US jail population, as percent of total population is nearly 10 times greater than other advanced countries with federal funding of schools. Same is true of killings in schools. Hard to tell if the USA is just too arrogant to learn from others or just too stupid. Probably a mix of both.

    Here is link telling a much better elementary education system that costs no more and is used in Scandinavia: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/re...sacrificial-alter.136190/page-11#post-3118687

    * Not to mention the costs /damage they caused society before they went to jail.
     
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  11. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    What has cause American education to decline, since its glory days of the 1950-60's, is the impact of liberalism. The current education system is no longer based on natural selection; fitness and merit. Rather it tries to accommodate to achieve unnatural results based on liberal philosophy. In natural selection, there are winners and losers. This causes people to strive, and the best to reach the top, so they can lead by example.

    With liberal accommodation, there is a rigging of the system to achieve a more homogeneous ideal. To do this, you need to make the system work better for the lowest tier, and less effectively for the top tier students, or else it would make the divide wider. To make all students subjectivity equal, you need to prop up and dumb down. The education system is now more for the women than it is for the men, to make it easier for females to compete. More females go to college and more males drop out because it feels like ladies night.

    Accommodation also has to break others connection between natural cause and effect. Even if you can't read, you can still get a diploma. It is not about the cause and effect of merit and reward, but quotas. History also has to be revised, to downgrade one group and boost up others, with the cause and effect skills of data analysis distorted. Science, which is more objective, is an enemy to the bad analysis of accommodation, and needs to be downgraded.

    If you look at the current demonstrations against the police, 95% of the young black male deaths are caused by other black males. Only 5% is caused by the police. In terms of data analysis, liberalism teaches one to ignore 95% of the data and fixate on only the 5%, and use that to create a solution; dumb as a stump. Science will seem alien if you learn this, since science would use the 95% to form its theory.

    Mitt Romney wanted to get rid of the department of education. This is needed to clean house and get rid of the dim wits who lead the dumb down and illusion process. Then you go back and place science people, based on cause and effect, in charge. With cause and effect restored to education and data analysis based on the preponderance of the data, science becomes more appealing, naturally.
     
  12. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Prejudice against blacks, females and liberals. All I need is water and entropy and I will get BINGO!

    By the way we need to do somehting about white on white violence. Do your realize ~85% of the violent crimes against whites are done by other whites?
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And your evidence is where? You don't have any because you don't need or want evidence. Unfortunately for you and those of your ilk mindless repetition of the likes of Limbaugh and Levin or Fox News isn't a substitute for evidence in the real world.

    And it is more than a little odd to hear folks like you complain about the quality of education when you in the next breath demand unorthodox and unscientific ideologies like creationism be taught in our school systems as a science and ignore real science like climate change and then go on to demean and discount American institutions of higher learning which are among the best in the world, because evidence and reason doesn't comport with your ideological beliefs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
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  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I thought that you were in Brazil. American expat?

    I don't think that the fact that most people enjoy sports and entertainment more than educational programming on TV has much to do with to poor elementary education. Even graduates of good elementary schools who went on to earn university degrees typically feel the same way.

    That assumes that there are objective ways to measure teacher quality that are independent of how well their students do. If that isn't the case, then teachers who want to look good will gravitate to districts where students are likely to outperform.

    And if we want to use offers of higher pay to attract better teachers to poor-performing districts, we would have to dislodge the very militant big-city teacher's unions first, so that poor teachers can be terminated and so that hiring and retention is merit-based. If that isn't the case, we just end up paying bad teachers more.

    That's assuming that working teachers even see the money. Many of these districts are bloated with well-paid administrators and consultants who never teach. What's more, many of them pay retirees gold-plated benefits from retirement systems that are appallingly underfunded and near bankruptcy. So when more money is directed to schools, sometimes it just ends up going into the teacher retirement system. (If you touch those benefits, there will be big-time labor strife.)

    The District of Columbia has higher teacher pay than pretty much any state, but lower student performance than pretty much any state.

    Having said all that, I don't think that the real problem is school funding or even the quality of teachers, really. It's the quality of students. This is something that (most emphatically) it's politically incorrect to say, but there's a strong inverse correlation in many parts of the country between percentage of black kids in a school and that school's performance. Everyone tip-toes around it but everyone knows it.

    So why is that? I think that it's largely because there's a hugely disfunctional subculture in much of black America. Marriage is unusual and the majority of children are born to single mothers. That's a prescription for poverty right there. Children don't receive the kind of support and attention at home that other kids get. (Compare that to the Chinese immigrant families who might be poor, but push their kids mercilessly to study and do well in school.)

    It's especially bad for young black boys. Oftentimes there's no suitable adult male role-models around as they grow up. So boys kind of raise themselves. And oftentimes those they look up to most are the thugs, the criminals and the bad-asses. Being scary and violent is the only kind of status that many of these boys can see themselves achieving. It's how they hope to gain respect.

    In that kind of situation, increasing teacher pay in hopes of attracting better math and science instruction is just spitting into the wind. Proposing that the solution is somehow to nationalize schools is foolishness. The underlying social problems in many of the worst performing schools are a lot deeper and intractable than that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and Yes. My first wife was elementary school teacher in suburb of Oslo in 2nd year of her 2nd cycle of kids. 25 or so years later in the USA, She still got Christmas new letters from half the first cycle students. As is common a strong bond forms between the sutent and their "2nd Mother." One of those letters always ended with, in (translation): "If you ever have financial problems, just let me know. You made me the success I am today." (He owns a few small oil tankers that can off-load oil/ gasoline from ocean going ones and deliver it to towns well up the many fjords.) Even though there must be several hundred times more American elementary school teachers, I bet none ever got such an offer. Most don't even remember the name of one of theirs.
    You are correct. This is large part of the US's problem, but not limited to blacks. Schools can not correct except rarely, for parents who neither have nor value education. The US has a problem that will take generations to cure, but it must start trying with better educational opportunities in ALL THE ELEMENTARTY SCHOOLS.

    Benjamin Carlson, a black surgeon, once head of the pediatric surgery department at JHU Hospital, and now a leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, gave the "black pride" address at the JHU/APL where I worked, many years ago. He came from a poor broken family with mother who could not read, but she did not let young Ben know that. Every week he had to bring home a book or two and read them to her while she worked. Ben naturally picked books with few words and many pictures. One was about rocks. A few days before while walking home along the railroad track he noticed and picked up a whitish stone - a piece of obsidian and learned its name from that book. He was in 2nd or 3d grade and was the "class dummy." - Even he thought so.
    He mainly looked out the window and paid little attention to the teacher. One day the teacher showed some rocks and asked if anyone knew what they were. When the shown rock was obsidian, no one did. Timidly Ben held up his hand. One boy said: This ought to be good - lets hear what the dummy has to say." as the others laughed.

    When Ben said "obsidian" the teacher was more surprised than anyone. She exclaimed: "Why that's right Ben!" Ben began to think, perhaps he was not so dumb after all. Soon he was the best student and became the youngest department head at the hospital - successfully separated two Siamese twins, other doctors thought could not be separated. etc. That piece of obsidian sat on his desk at JHU hospital. I bet if he does become president it will be on the desk of the oval office too.

    The US is still paying a dear price for the slaves imported to pick cotton, and will for many generations to come if no strenuous effort is made to stabilize families in the back communities as well as provide wonderful educational opportunities and rewards to students who despite all, excel. There is no significant difference between the races in intrinsic intelligence - what there is very tiny compared to the spread within each race. I agree failure more common among blacks is in large part cultural but that will not change without more effort /opportunities / and rewards for those who break free of these cultural disadvantages, like Ben Carlson who was lucky to have a mother like he had.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2014
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Obsidian is black, not white. (Is that the secret ironic moral to the story?)
     
  17. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    thanks for the correction. No. Just my faulty assumption as he found it while walking home on the railroad track.

    I was very active in the movement to open restaurant in Baltimore years before he spoke at JHU/APL - I still have a video tape of his talk - the only one I bought from the audio department of APL/JHU in 30 years.
     
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  18. river

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    There was a time when the general public separated themselves from politicians attitude of , " scratch my back and I'll scratch yours " , and we took offence to the attitude placed upon ourselves and others

    But in todays world this attitude has infused itself in our conscience generally

    And this corruption of the filtering down of political attitudes is making us hard and less a friendly society

    We don't do things for each other , helpful things or actions without some expected reward , and sooner rather than later

    To be Good is a dam tough action to do without any connotation implied

    Misunderstanding of Good intentions runs unreasonably and non-sequitur free

    We need to stop this kind of thinking , the sooner the better
     
  19. The. Ring. Banned Banned

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    Actually, you can watch a lecture on any topic that you choose on the internet. If you want to watch the lecture on your TV, get a Google Chromecast for your TV's usb port. https://www.google.com/#q=google chrome&tbm=shop&spd=5937010854546592333 https://www.google.com/#q=free science lectures
     
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  20. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    " What is wrong with this world "
    while i am standing still, i prefer the stillness here. i am tired of earth, these people, i'm tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives [dr. manhattan]
     
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  21. The. Ring. Banned Banned

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    I agree completely, thank you for sharing that thought with us.
     
  22. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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    Thats what sciforums is here for! Geek of the day.
     
  23. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Here is one old guy's POV:
    That I, with no car, no cell phone, no social media account, etc. can relate to.

    Here from National Press Club / C-span2 / NPR is a longer one where he is funny:
     
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