What is up with the moderator vendetta against Gustav?

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by quadraphonics, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. RealityCheck Banned Banned

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    There are cases and there are cases. Each case must be taken on its own circumstances. Where the problem is the mod-troll combo, why should one just take it? If the mod-troll is the one doing the intruding, insulting, harrassing, spoiling, sabotaging, personalizing and unfair banning, why blame the victim? Discretion, not generalization. This is a science site, not a social blog where the bullies are kings. Everyone has faults, but when these are magnified and exacerbated by mod-troll antics and tactics, it's time to make a stand in instances where the facts point to the mod-troll as the problem, not that particular victim of it.

    Here's a constructive alternative suggestion: The less problems brought by mod-trolls, the easier life would be for all of us, and ESPECIALLY the mods. Cheers!
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't imply that. Don't make things up.


    I thought we had already cleared that up earlier:


     
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't imply that. Don't make things up.


    I thought we had already cleared that up earlier:


     
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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Because they still have some faith in justice and rationality.


    If the mods would treat posters more fairly, then that would ease the workload on everyone.

    No wrongful infractions, no need to request them to be overturned.
    No wrongful bannings, no discussion about them.



    Gustav stood up for himself when unjustly treated.
    Some people didn't like that.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So if they treated them as you demanded, everything would be easier? And if not, you will be sure to add to their workload?

    Multiply that attitude by about 200 and it should be pretty self-explanatory why it wouldn't work.

    I've been a mod on other forums going on 15 years now. And I can guarantee you that 99.9% of the time - the person being banned thinks it's wrongful and thinks it should be overturned.
     
  9. RealityCheck Banned Banned

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    There you go with unjust generalizations and invalid rationalizations. Justice and fair play is not an either/or proposition based on 'expediency' and 'convenience' like some 'optional extra' or 'luxury item'. Something is either just or unjust on its merits in each case.

    The fact that you don't seem to understand this basic principle tells me that perhaps you should never be in a mod position....unless you now understand the principle exists and should not be put aside for reasons of 'expedient' prejudice or mod convenience.

    By your rationalization/generalization, just because 99% of inmates on death row are guilty, then the 1% unjustly convicted and sentenced to death along with the 99% should be happy in the knowledge that YOU are 'expediently' satisfied with that injustice just so no inconvenience is given to those who put him there in that case.

    Get real. No-one is advocating free-for-all. Just fair play in open forum instead of backroom manipulation of reputations and discussions in order to eventually ban. If someone is troublemaker for the sake of troublemaking, then the open forum will judge and the ban will not be easily opposed because the facts are in the open instead of in the power of mod-troll abusers of the rules to railroad members they don't like, even while doing some of the same things themselves! But as we've seen, personal maliciousness and hypocritical double standards come back to bite, don't they!

    Remember who started making the trouble and abusing the rules and personalizing etc etc when I conducted my Mars Rover experiment to prove that such mod-troll pattern of behaviour/agenda existed? Well, just keep on remembering that; and don't generalize and rationalize always to 'excuse' the mod-troll; for in some cases they WERE the problem. Denial of that just to justify your own general prejudice and 'convenient' rationalizations does not answer.

    If the mod-troll pattern/problem is no longer allowed free rein as it has been, then naturally complaints will fall and self-evident troublemakers (mods or trolls) will be self-evident in open forum facts rather than behind closed door mod-troll skewing of the facts to mislead ordinary member opinion.


    These recent constructive challenges are for the greater good; and stopping actual trolls/troublemakers will be EASIER if the rules apply fairly and no mod-troll combo prejudices are involved. Only when things smell fishy do the (genuine and valid) complaints increase (assuming the genuine victim will risk ban again for doing so). Spurious and troll 'complaints' (from BOTH 'sides') would then be more apparent and can be dealt with without any murmur from genuine posters/members/mods.

    Let's do it right, once and for all. Then the forum will need less moderating time for such things; because the malicious trolls and troublemakers will be excised quickly without causing longterm havoc to genuine members/discussions; thus streamlining the mod process if such injustices/mod-trolls are not allowed to persist anymore.


    Improve the calibre/integrity of moderation and the rest will take care of itself with a minimum of fuss or bother to mods/admin; and they can therefore allocate more of their limited and valuable time to sorting out the software/spambot problems.


    For the sake of science and humanity, good luck and good thinking, everyone!
     
  10. seagypsy Banned Banned

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    I would bet that a lot of people banned would think it was wrong and want it over turned but I think 99.9% is an absurdly high guestimate. Some may claim that it is uncalled for but if they were banned for legitimate reasons AND they were simply trolling then it is the nature of the troll to continue to troll. Neverfly has not once mentioned that he felt his banning wasn't called for and I have not once challenged the ban itself.

    I have questioned only the methods of behavior that led up to the banning. And the way in which the ban was administered. Of course there is a twit of a mod who thinks they have accomplished something major and feels the need to attack me every chance they get and accuse me of defending against and fighting for an overturn of Neverfly's ban. But it only shows what a twit that particular mod is. Luckily for me, I modified my browser and no longer see the twits posts. They appear to be blocked by the site now lol. I love being a web developer. Soon I will have all the mods blocked from appearing on my screen.

    I also find it hilarious that Kittamaru defends the mods like crazy over here but then joins the squirrels forum pretending to be a dissenter and one of those who are fed up with the mods here. I guess he didn't think we would figure him out. Or maybe he fancies himself a spy. How pathetic.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    From this site's rules:

    I have contacted the owners of this site directly and advised them that a member of this site has advised that she has somehow managed to bypass this site's secure software and is claiming that she can now block moderator posts. This site's software does not allow any member to block or ignore moderators. I am sure they will be interested in her claims and see if she is lying or not and to see if she has somehow managed to breach this site's secure software to allow her to do what the software specifically does not allow members to do.

    I would suggest all members refrain from following suit because if you are moderated and because you have blocked or ignored all moderator posts and you ignore or bypass a moderated post and repost something that has been deleted, or it leads you to interfere with this site's moderation, you will be banned from this site. Without fail.

     
  12. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    Like I said, you're such an idealist.
    Or perhaps you're just naive..
     
  13. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    I find it rather entertaining how you think I have pretended to be a "spy" in any sense - if I had any intention of spying on you guys, would it not have been prudent to, oh, I don't know, maybe not use the same e-mail address, or my usual RP name? *shrugs* I'm sorry but you do have a bad habit of jumping to the worst of conclusions. Also, in response to your issue with making posts - I would wager your "modification" had something to do with it.

    Finally, do be aware that your penchant for digging up old (six month+) posts to attempt to use as bait to goad a response from the moderation team is... well, not very original. I mean, you're digging up posts from before you even joined. That's just sad ma'am... or sir (the change in posting style hasn't gone unnoticed either... if Neverfly is using your account at all, I advise you to tell him to kindly knock it the frack off)

    To think that I had actually spoken in your defense, and now all this... *shrugs* c'est la vie.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You can think that if you like. Have you ever moderated a board?

    Or to claim that he stepped over the line but others have done worse, so the banning is completely unfair. Or that he was out of line, but the moderator had it in for him, so the banning should be reversed. Or that when he said "you're a burned out brainless drug user" he claimed that that was NOT a personal attack since the person had once admitted to using drugs, so the banning was unfair. (Last was an actual example.)

    If the criteria for a "justfied banning" is that the person being banned agreed it was legitimate, then you might as well not have moderators. And again, there is an excellent option for people who prefer such forums - Usenet.

    A good solution for you!
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    This is pretty common, actually. Browser add-ons can be created to simply not display posts from specific users. It does not affect, or interact with, the forum; it just displays (or does not display) sections of web pages that are sent to a user's PC. This is more akin to putting masking tape over your screen so you can't see someone's post than "bypassing the security software." Google "greasemonkey killfile" for an example.
     
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

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    This is perhaps the most pathetic "mod note" I've ever read.

    Talk about petty. You're Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
     
  17. Balerion Banned Banned

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    This is perhaps the most pathetic "Mod Note" I've ever read.

    Petty. So petty. You're Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
     
  18. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Because the most important thing is that Sciforums should be just like those "other forums." Yes. Yet another Stepford franchise.
     
  19. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, endorsing critical thinking is rather idealistic, to the point of naive ...
     
  20. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure how it's petty... if she altered her browser alone then fine - if she is attempting to alter information coming to/from the forums and the server it is hosted on... well, suffice it to say that is something the owners NEED to know about. That is one hell of a security hole.
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Oh, so you mean neither you nor Bells actually read her post. I see.

    So...yeah.
     
  22. RealityCheck Banned Banned

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    Mate, seriously, if you don't see the irony and disingenuousness in your actions and excuses in the case of joining that other forum using another user name, and then saying you didn't mean to deceive....well, it is just astounding the lengths to which a mod will go to excuse himself while blaming others for the same thing!

    Remeber when I registered my "Mars Rover" Experiment name for the purpose of scientifically falsifying/confirming the observed mod-troll pattern/problem here? I explained the scientific necessity for what I did to ensure a 'new' name for the test. I also point out that it was temporary. I also now point out that I knew full well my 'cover' was not foolproof, but since it was not meant to deceive 'permanently' and was for a good cause, I didn't bother going to extraordinary lengths (like using a temporary overseas IP etc etc which I could have done) to hide my Mars Rover experiment's "identity".

    Now here you are, attempting to 'excuse' yourself when YOU do much the same, but I got banned because you did not accept that same line of justification for MY action!

    Doesn't that tell you something is wrong with your attitude in general, let alone as a supposed 'mod' whose duty it is to be fair? I have pointed, and proven beyond all reasonable doubt via time-limited experiment, that hypocrisy, double standars and plain elitist arrogance that 'the rules' don't apply to mod-trolls who 'think they own' the rules and can apply them capriciously, mendaciously, maliciously and hypocritically.....seemingly with the impression that when YOU do it it's alright!

    Mate, at least I had a scientific purpose and justification for doing "Mars Rover" temporary subterfuge crucial for the experiment....but YOU, you did it without any saving justification, and when found out you use an excuse which you didn't accept for ME.

    Hey, everyone, let's all stop kidding ourselves. There IS a demonstrated mod-troll mentality of double standard ego and malice and personal agendas. Sometimes there is similar on the part of some ordinary member. How about we stop pretending and making excuses for BOTH types of behaviour, hey?

    I and others have now well demonstrated where the problems lay; and I and others have made constructive suggestions how the problems from both 'sides' can be tackled and the site made less vulnerable to malicious manipulation by either 'side'.

    Just be fair in moderation in open forum for transparency so we all know how things stand based on the open facts; and don't employ such double standards and hypocrisy and mendacious excuses/distortions; and by this method we can all see which are the real trolls and troublemakers, and who the genuine members/mods. Why is there so much resistance to common sense and fair play approach? Why try to maintain the facade of respectability, when even Kittamaru has now further proven that mods can't be trusted for as long as THEY do the same things that others do but think they are immune from the rules of fair play?

    Come on, Kittamaru, stop your disingenuous "shrugs" and own up: admit your ironic faux pas there, and then let's all grow up and move constructively forward together with good will and fairness as a starting point instead of making it necessary for people to complain after the event for redress of obvious injustice.

    We are supposed to be scientist and human beings together here to discuss ideas, not just bicker and make personal powerplays and trolls etc.

    Just do it. We all know it must be done sooner or later if the site is to remain relevant. So let's do it now without further excuses and distractions. Only good can come of it if we act according to the well demonstrated facts so far discovered. Good luck, site and members and mods alike!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  23. RealityCheck Banned Banned

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    800

    Again, since it is apparently not yet clear to all here, the PROBLEM is not just the usual silliness of 'other sites on the net" etc etc, it is that MOD-TROLLS HERE on OUR site are contributing a priori to the problem; where GENUINE posters are treated unfairly, AS MY EXPERIMENT and the discussion since has DEMONSTRATED beyond denial and excusing; hence there is no choice but for aggrieved genuine parties to protest so things can IMPROVE. It is the way things get improved. Acquiescent with injustice makes for stagnation, reputation loss and irrelevance in the end.

    Unless you don't want any improvement? Is that it? You are satisfied with faulty and constantly dysfunctional site? I and some others aren't so accepting of something that is broken. We can fix it. We already know how, reasonably, and without all the 'all or nothing', or 'sky will fall in if we do' excuses and rationalizations which are already stale and shown to be ridiculous double-speak to justify inaction and maintain power (perhaps by certain people whom it might not suit to have a BETTER and FAIRER forum because they would be forced to go elsewhere to play their power and ego-trip games?).

    Good luck and good thinking, everyone!
     
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