What is the role of religion in our modern secular world?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Does it even have a role anymore? Most kids, by the time they graduate high school, are educated enough about science and history that they see no need for the standard theological explanations of yesteryear. And morality is no longer viewed as unconditional servitude to a higher will. What good then does religion do for our society? If religion ceased to exist tomorrow, what changes could we expect to see in our world?
     
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  3. arauca Banned Banned

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    Why don't you look into the former communist country , you might find you answer there, As freedom come into the former communist country religion is growing like mushroom and people are looking fo an supreme being.
    Young people are attached to the present education ,but as time passes and we become older many of us get to realize there must be something beyond what we know.
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, let's look at Russia and the effect of religion over there:


    "Gay people, religion offenders are criminals now in Russia"


    By Eko Armunanto


    "Russia passed a bill providing jail terms and fines for anyone convicted of insulting religious feelings, and another bill forbidding homosexuality. Signed by President Putin, the bill says gay rights activists and religion insulters are criminals.

    Russia's parliament State Duma has unanimously passed a federal law banning gay propaganda in the course of Kremlin’s push to enshrine deeply conservative values that critics say has already led to a sharp increase in anti-gay violence. The law passed 436-0 Tuesday, with only one deputy abstaining from voting on the bill which bans the spreading of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The new law makes it illegal to equate straight and gay relationships, and the distribution of material on gay rights. It introduces fines for individuals and media groups found guilty of breaking the law, as well as special fines for foreigners.

    During the vote, gay rights activists clashed with anti-gay groups outside the Duma. It also passed a bill imposing up to three years in jail on those who offend religious believers – comes in the wake of the imprisoning of members of the punk band Pussy Riot for performing an anti-Putin protest in an Orthodox cathedral in February 2012. Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina, the two of band members, are currently serving two-year jail terms. Critics said the punk rockers offended the faithful while supporters said their counter-culture performance targeted Putin and the Church's close ties to the Kremlin.

    Public actions expressing clear disrespect for society and committed to the goal of offending religious feelings of the faithful would be punishable with jail terms of up to one year and fines of up to $9,000. The same actions committed in places of worship would be punishable by up to three years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000 – Aljazeera citing the new law.

    Responding to Human Right Watch’s critics saying the law would only raise the level of intolerance in Russian society – referring to the ban on homosexual propaganda, one of the bill's authors Yelena Mizulina said traditional sexual relations are relations between a man and a woman and that should be protected by the government. The measure is part of an effort to promote traditional Russian values as opposed to Western liberalism that the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church see as corrupting Russian youth and contributing to the protests against President Vladimir Putin's rule.

    Homosexuality was once illegal during Soviet times, but was then decriminalized in 1993. Now the bill goes to the Federation Council where it has strong support, and then to President Vladimir Putin to sign it."

    Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/352045#ixzz2W2jAFMKR
     
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  7. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    It gives people an excuse to hate and kill those who don't believe as they do. (as if that were needed).
     
  8. arauca Banned Banned

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    Tell me why homosexuals need to advertise themselves . Advertise homosexuality is disgusting . Think about advertise like " lets' fake in the ass " your sexuality is private , otherwise you are like a prostitute calling for business, and this is disgusting.
    During the communist regime the practicing Christians were put in jail , at that time the atheist had the upper hand , now the situation is reversed and the atheist don't like .Do you want that the world adopt the American system ? For goodness sake let each country follow the system of their own choice.
     
  9. Balerion Banned Banned

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    If the question is, does it have a meaningful, positive role to play in today's society, I would say no. Science has defeated it as an explanation for the natural world, and secularism has surpassed it as a framework to enable positive social and political change. I suppose if the major religions of the world abandoned their anti-gay and anti-woman traditions, then they could theoretically become part of the solution, but who would they be fighting for gay rights and women's right against? If the Abrahamic religions pulled an about-face on these issues, then there would be no resistance. In other words, they could accomplish the same thing by simply disappearing.

    I know religion can help people in times of crisis, and that it can a positive influence on individuals. The problem is that it can't help imposing itself on others, and that's why it never has been and never will be a net positive influence on society.
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    As your post exemplifies, its the very nature of discussing ideas that they impose themselves.
    :shrug:
     
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Nonsense. Some theists don't insist that the mandates of their faith apply to everyone.

    And you seem to taking on a very minor point, compared to the larger one that religion is a negative influence. I wonder why.

    :shrug:
     
  12. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Your inability to present an idea that doesn't impose on anyone (a kind of ridiculous task IMHO, but anyways, its your argument that is resting on it) has nothing to do with faith

    ATM the only thing I am wondering is what these large negative influences of religion are.
    I mean unless you are a self righteous militant atheist, I really can't see what there is for you to be so worried about.
    :shrug:
     
  13. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I know this is sort of flying over your head, so let me try again: Religion itself is an idea that is not exclusively imposed on other people, so the idea that all ideas necessarily impose themselves on others is simply false.

    Or gay. Or a woman. Or a member of a different faith. Or a supporter of a certain political party. Or an innocent bystander.

    Unless you're suggesting that campaigns against civil rights, and terrorist attacks only affect self-righteous militant atheists.

    :shrug:
     
  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    On the contrary (your typos aside), ideas by their nature do (at least attempt to anyway) impose themselves.
    Your own posts are a fine example.
    :shrug:

    IOW anything that culminates in the acceptance/rejection (or even uncertainty for that matter) of an act or event exterior to an individual is something that has an imposing quality.

    The irony is that the more you try to suggest otherwise, the more you are strengthening my case.




    Given that a vast majority of people who are religious don't tick these boxes, you've just proved my point.
    :shrug:
     
  15. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Who am I imposing my ideas upon, and in what way? And what typos are you talking about? Do you really want to go there?

    An idea doesn't need to shared by the majority to be valid.

    :shrug:

    So are you saying that 9/11 wasn't religiously inspired? That campaigns against the civil rights of homosexuals isn't religiously inspired? That the status of women in Muslim countries isn't religiously inspired?

    :shrug:
     
  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    anyone who glances upon what you say, write or do and arrives at some ultimate point of accepting, rejecting or being uncertain about what you say, do or think.


    Once again, the more you try to offer justifications for your words, the more ground you lose.

    YOU :"The problem is that it can't help imposing itself on others," ... still waiting for an example of an idea that somehow evades this so-called nasty criteria of imposing on others ...." and that's why it never has been and never will be a net positive influence on society." ... but apparently there is no need to look at the majority outlook when weighing up the so-called "net" worth of religiousity.

    :shrug:
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    do you think people become religious to get scientific knowledge?

    Jan.
     
  18. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I'm actually laughing out loud right now. You've changed the definition of the word "impose" to make it interchangeable with "share" or "offer," and for no discernible reason other than being able to make the statement "ideas by their nature impose themselves." Which, by the way, would require an out-of-context reading to be of any value as an opposition to my own statement, meaning that your sole purpose for making that comment was to undermine me dishonestly.

    By the actual definition of "impose," many ideas could serve as an example, but I'll just use the one I've already used twice: Religion is an idea that is not necessarily imposed on others. Many religions are imposed on others, and that was the point of my comment, but not all.

    Of course not. Most people aren't murderers, but murder makes an impact on society disproportionate to the number of people who actually commit murder. Would anyone argue that any Muslim group has had a larger impact on society than Al Qaeda? The most influential people in our society are in our government--a minority of citizens.

    This idea that only the majority's opinion is relevant is absurd. Maybe you should give it more thought before you post again?

    :shrug:
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    What are you talking about "advertise"? Do you call it "advertising" when heterosexuals go to clubs and date and get married in churches and talk openly of their love lives? No, ofcourse you don't. Cuz in your hateful mind gay people have no right to be public about their lives and should hide in the closet. You are a living demonstration of the ignorance and bigotry that religion warps minds with. And Russia is an example of that same hateful mindset enforced as censorship of free speech and the persecution of gay people. History repeatedly shows that when the religious mobs gain the upper hand in government then rights are trampled on and minorities are oppressed in the name of God. Religion HAS no role in the modern world, and least of all in free democracies. The sooner it disappears the better for everyone in the world.
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "Religion has run out of justifications. Thanks to the telescope and the microscope, it no longer offers an explanation of anything important. Where once it used to be able, by its total command of a worldview, to prevent the emergence of rivals, it can now only impede and retard – or try to turn back – the measurable advances that we have made. Sometimes, true, it will artfully concede them. But this is to offer itself the choice between irrelevance and destruction, impotence or outright reaction, and, given this choice, it is programmed to select the worse of the two. Meanwhile, confronted with undreamed-of vistas inside our own evolving cortex, in the farthest reaches of the known universe, and in the proteins and acids which constitutes our nature, religion offers either annihilation in the name of god, or else the false promise that if we take a knife to our foreskins, or pray in the right direction, or ingest pieces of wafer, we shall be “saved.” It is as if someone, offered a delicious and fragrant out-of-season fruit, matured in a painstakingly and lovingly designed hothouse, should throw away the flesh and the pulp and gnaw moodily on the pit."--Christopher Hitchens
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think you could respond to the OP for a change?
     
  22. arauca Banned Banned

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    Do you think during the communist ere you could peddle your behind ? That was an orderly society no dancing with you rainbow flag . You have to remember one thing man is man ,he have a dick to piss and to eject his sperm , and an arshe hole to excrete the undigested shit, and other man in his right mind should not stick his dick into
     
  23. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    When will people no longer feel any need for religious belief? Maybe when everyone is comfortable being a physicalist.
     

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