Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by dumaurier, Jul 2, 1999.
Why is there a universe?
To glorify God!
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There are no accidents.
Life was all very well planned by God. His purpose was clear: so that all things in existence glorify Him.
Next time you walk outside, look at the branches of trees, at the flowers. Notice in which direction the branches and flowers turn. See how they're all turned upward glorifying their Creator with outstretched hands. Plants glorify the sun. Human beings should glorify their Creator with outstretched arms.
The notion that we humans are a laboratory experiment of some galactic civilization originates in the imagination of those who are completely out of touch with the Glorified Creator.
Man must believe. He must have faith. He must love. When he turns his belief in the direction of nonsense, nonsense is the fruit. When he places his faith in stupidity, the same is his reward. When he loves his imagination, he becomes the embodiment of fancy.
Humanity is established on the foundation of the love of God.
Simple answer from a simple age.
Imagine a scientist breeding a special species of lab rat that would do nothing but glorify him. That's what we'd technically refer to as Mad Scientist.
Even if you believe in God, it's nonsensical and horribly depressing to reduce life to that.
I am; therefore I think.
Let me get this straight.
Dumarier, you're saying that we were
put on this planet to serve god.
Apparently, your statements about the
life aren't exactly right.
I wish you could think more genearly like
I do, in higher dimensions, at higher
levels of thinking.
Try to understand that the meaning of life
is not to serve god. In a sense it is,
but in another sense it isn't.
By saying that, you are only stating indirectly that we are dominent over all
forms of life.
There are two parts, perspectives if you
will call them, to the meaning of life.
The first one is the general perspective
many of you tend to refer your views to.
The general perspective here is that we
were not put on this planet to serve god.
The general perspective of this topic
refers somewhat to the 1st law of
survival (the strongest always survive).
Do you see tigers, goats, cats or dogs
preying to god? No, only humans do.
That would mean that the meaning of life
is not to prey to god now is it.
I relate the general idea of life's meaning
to the 1st law of survival because that
is one way of putting it. Basically,
the meaning of life itself it to survive.
Every single specie on this planet including
us has survived because of a few things.
Life survives because it learns, it adapts,
and progresses - thus you have evolution.
The second part here is the individualistic
ideas of what the meaning of life is.
As a whole, we have evolved tremendously
and developed ourselves into a complex
society. Life to us is no longer a game
of passing on our genes from generation
to generation. Each one of our lives goes
beyond that and thus has further, more
The meaning of life is what you want it
to be; what life means to you.
If you want to go and prey to go and
believe that is the meaning of life
then do - there's you're meaning of life.
Each meaning is different for every
person on the earth.
Evolution is an information-encoding process. So is our civilization.
Life as a whole seems to want to encode as much information about the universe as possible. Which would even make sense evolutionarily, since knowledge/adaptation improves odds of survival.
As some people put it, life is the universe's consciousness, its way of figuring itself out.
Why are we accumulating knowledge? Is there an end-point to all this? Are we building toward something, or just aimlessly following the laws of physics? If there is a purpose to life, it must be embedded in physical laws which drive our existence, and in the initial state of the universe.
One guess is as good as any other...
Here's a fascinating scenario:
The universe itself is a form of life. It had a birth, it is growing up, and eventually it will die of old age. Universes procreate, however, and life as we know it is the universal gonad. Our task is to learn about the organism and its behavior, and then figure out a way to give birth to the next universe. Then we would have served our purpose, and can die of old age, even as new life takes root in the new universe(s) we helped create. Or maybe we end up opening the doors to another existence, and breaking out of the 'cycle' -- perhaps to become part of an even greater life cycle or to originate life cycles of our own... It's the infinite universe and infinite God all wrapped into the same package.
Beautiful, and even sort of romantic, no? Just dreamt it up five minutes ago, and thought I'd share with the rest of you. Say, would anybody like to start a new religion based on my idea? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I am; therefore I think.
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
God is closer to you than your life vein, says the Qu'ran. He it was Who gave you life, the air you breath, the food you eat, and the rational faculty with which you can appreciate His glorious handiwork. In every little thing can be seen the wonders of this most glorious Creator. No matter how far we can examine and understand the smallest of things in this magnificent universe, we will see God in it, through it, above it. He is the Omnipresent, the Inescapable. All things were created to discover the greatness of their creator. A piece of bread was made by able hands to aid in nourishing them. There is no other more lofty purpose than this in the entire universe for a piece of bread. Man's duty is to serve his Creator to the best of his ability. No matter how much logic and intelligence you try to inject into trying to understand the universe, you will always be led to the fact that the essence of everything could never be disclosed to the mind. In the beginning there was God, and naught was there but Him! He is the Fashioner, the Begetter of every atom and beyond.
Try to understand that the meaning of life is not to serve God. In a sense it is, but in another sense it isn't. By saying that, you are only stating indirectly that we are dominant over all forms of life.
Man is, indeed, the ultimate creation for in him is seen that faculty with which he may consciously contemplate his Creator. If this is the meaning of your word, "dominant," then we agree.
Xeno, i understand what you mean with regards the Darwinian notion dealing with the "survival of the fittest." However, i differ in this view insomuch as such struggle is limited to the animal world. Man should not stoop to such levels as to allow his own brother to die of starvation. Strife and bloodshed befit the beasts of the field, not man. Man's station is high, very high. It is our duty to progress out of a past of ignorance and superstition and begin to realize with concrete means our mutual unity. For example, the age of nation building has come to an end. It is no longer appropriate for a country to declare independence but it is high time we labored diligently to build one world unity. In this we are capable. But if we remain in the past and continue thinking in terms of "survival of the fittest," we won't be able to establish one world on this planet. Nevertheless, i do believe that, want it or want it not, God works His works and the unity of the human race will be realized despite the desires of certain men. You are correct in stating that "life survives because it learns, it adapts, and progresses - thus you have evolution." Indeed! Let us stop thinking as our ancestors did. Let us truly realize that humanity can survive because it learns, adapts, progresses, evolves towards world unity.
Your other point concerns individualistic meaning and you say that "life is what you want it to mean." Individualism is a product of our capitalism. Take away God from the life of a person and you have individualism. God desires good for all of mankind. Today God desires to see man unified in one global community on this planet. You are aware that modern television, radio, the internet, airplane travel, etc., have made our limited national community into one very large community which embraces all peoples of this planet. The people of Indonesia just 30 years ago were oppressed, worked almost for nothing, had a life expectancy of 45-50 years, but today enjoy a strong economy, live to a ripe old age as in our own Western world, and enjoy all the benefits technological development and education has bestowed upon them. They have a seat at the United Nations, and are keen on international assistance to other nations in need. This is the meaning of life, my dear Xeno: that we labor day and night that traditional prejudices based on ignorant individualism and such backward notions as "survival of the fittest" be completely eradicated in order that we may all live for the betterment of the entire human race. But in order to live such a selfless life one needs to love humanity. There cannot be any love for humanity if there is no love of God in the heart. God created all and everyone that we should uplift our hands to praise and glorify His Name, the Unique, the Unifier of all of mankind.
"The Divine Messengers have been sent down, and their Books were revealed, for the purpose of promoting the knowledge of God, and of furthering unity and fellowship amongst men. (Bahá'u'lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 12)
The Great Being saith: Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom. If any man were to meditate on that which the Scriptures, sent down from the heaven of God's holy Will, have revealed, he would readily recognize that their purpose is that all men shall be regarded as one soul, so that the seal bearing the words "The Kingdom shall be God's" may be stamped on every heart, and the light of Divine bounty, of grace, and mercy may envelop all mankind. The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath wished nothing for Himself. The allegiance of mankind profiteth Him not, neither doth its perversity harm Him." (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 260)
"We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations.... That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled--what harm is there in this?... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the `Most Great Peace' shall come.... Yet do We see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind.... These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family.... Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind...." (Bahá'u'lláh, Proclamation of Baha'u'llah)
I still cannot understand how we can be
the ultimate form of life in the universe.
The bible says that we were created in
god's image; an image not of physical
importance but of spiritual significance.
The meaning of life that I stated was
only that of the physical. Why do we
live? Break society down and we are
no different than animals. Truthfully
we are intelligent, but primitive in
a sense. We act together in one way
but we still express acts of negativity
and violence because of emotions.
We cannot be the ultimate forms of life
in the universe. We live in nature;
we eat, sleep, drink, and feel emotions,
thus we cannot exist above nature.
Plain and simple is that we do not
exist above nature.
The meaning of life refers to the physical.
In a sense, you and I are talking about
2 different things.
I have to get a haircut now so I will have
to continue this post later.
God is not a he, nor a she, nor an individual. God is the alpha and the
Omega. God is the essence of the universe,
perhaps the universe itself in one
By calling God a he, you are binding him
down to our level; to the physical where
we are chained down by the physical laws
of the universe. Thus if this were so,
God would be no different than you
or me and certainly not more pure than
you and me.
One must suffer before he or she can
become affinified with God who is
infinity. In the end, our path is the
same - we become one with God.
Xeno, i will only take one point from your post and develop the theme.
I still cannot understand how we can be the ultimate form of life in the universe.
The honor and exaltation of every existing being depends upon causes and circumstances.
The excellency, the adornment and the perfection of the earth is to be verdant and fertile through the bounty of the clouds of springtime. Plants grow; flowers and fragrant herbs spring up; fruit-bearing trees become full of blossoms and bring forth fresh and new fruit. Gardens become beautiful, and meadows adorned; mountains and plains are clad in a green robe, and gardens, fields, villages and cities are decorated. This is the prosperity of the mineral world.
The height of exaltation and the perfection of the vegetable world is that a tree should grow on the bank of a stream of fresh water, that a gentle breeze should blow on it, that the warmth of the sun should shine on it, that a gardener should attend to its cultivation, and that day by day it should develop and yield fruit. But its real prosperity is to progress into the animal and human world, and replace that which has been exhausted in the bodies of animals and men.
The exaltation of the animal world is to possess perfect members, organs and powers, and to have all its needs supplied. This is its chief glory, its honor and exaltation. So the supreme happiness of an animal is to have possession of a green and fertile meadow, perfectly pure flowing water, and a lovely, verdant forest. If these things are provided for it, no greater prosperity can be imagined. For example, if a bird builds its nest in a green and fruitful forest, in a beautiful high place, upon a strong tree, and at the top of a lofty branch, and if it finds all it needs of seeds and water, this is its perfect prosperity.
But real prosperity for the animal consists in passing from the animal world to the human world, like the microscopic beings that, through the water and air, enter into man and are assimilated, and replace that which has been consumed in his body. This is the great honor and prosperity for the animal world; no greater honor can be conceived for it.
Therefore, it is evident and clear that this wealth, this comfort and this material abundance form the complete prosperity of minerals, vegetables and animals. No riches, wealth, comfort or ease of the material world is equal to the wealth of a bird; all the areas of these plains and mountains are its dwelling, and all the seeds and harvests are its food and wealth, and all the lands, villages, meadows, pastures, forests and wildernesses are its possessions. Now, which is the richer, this bird, or the most wealthy man? for no matter how many seeds it may take or bestow, its wealth does not decrease.
Then it is clear that the honor and exaltation of man must be something more than material riches. Material comforts are only a branch, but the root of the exaltation of man is the good attributes and virtues which are the adornments of his reality. These are the divine appearances, the heavenly bounties, the sublime emotions, the love and knowledge of God; universal wisdom, intellectual perception, scientific discoveries, justice, equity, truthfulness, benevolence, natural courage and innate fortitude; the respect for rights and the keeping of agreements and covenants; rectitude in all circumstances; serving the truth under all conditions; the sacrifice of one's life for the good of all people; kindness and esteem for all nations; the guidance of the people, and the education of the nations and races. This is the prosperity of the human world! This is the exaltation of man in the world! This is eternal life and heavenly honor!
These virtues do not appear from the reality of man except through the power of God and the divine teachings, for they need supernatural power for their manifestation. It may be that in the world of nature a trace of these perfections may appear, but they are unstable and ephemeral; they are like the rays of the sun upon the wall.
As the compassionate God has placed such a wonderful crown upon the head of man, man should strive that its brilliant jewels may become visible in the world. (`Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions)
Humans have a conscious and intelligent mind able to perceive the greatness of the cosmos all about. On the terrestrial globe we are the ultimate form of life insofar as we are capable of developing virtues in their fullest. No other form of life below that of the human is capable of developing qualities to the same extent as man is capable.
We really cannot say that we are the ultimate form of life in the universe. If i have said this i meant that we are the ultimate form of life within the known universe for, you will agree with me, we have yet to discover with absolute certainty other intelligent creatures as ourselves in the cosmos.
Nice talking to you
The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience - Frank Herbert
that was a good speach. All I can say
about what you said is that there is
no better way to truly generalize
what the meaning of life is.
I was replying to your post yesterday
but it was never finished because my
brother came up and started playing around
with the computer and apparently closed
the browser window.
*Sob* It's not fair. It took me 45 minutes
to write all that *Sob*
Just one question everyone. How do I
put happy faces, sad faces, and what the
heckever faces beside my writing.
What is the difference between
a member and a junior member?
There, I've said it. Oh boy, I'm getting
I'm so sorry for the major mishap that struck you yesterday. I can relate to how absolutely frustrating it can be when we've worked for a long time to answer a post and suddenly something goes wrong and you've lost your post. This also happened to me once right here on Exoscience. So, now what i do is copy the post which i wish to answer, bring it into one of my editors (Word or WordPerfect), save it on my harddrive and then i answer it from within that editor. My editors are configured to automatically save whatever document i'm working with every three minutes. In this way i never lose anything anymore. Try it. It works! Besides, you'll save on those tissues you've been buying to wipe away the tears Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You also asked about inserting icon graphics into your posts. I hope someone else here will be able to help you. I don't know how.
With regards your third question, "What is the difference between a member and a junior member?"
It seems that there isn't any according to a post i read by Dave Watanabe a while back. But i conjecture that if you've posted a certain number of posts in Exoscience, you automatically become a "member." But it doesn't mean anything.
There you have it. Are you happy?
Xeno,to quickly comment:
-using an external app like MS Word is a darned good idea. (huzah for spell-check)
-to make various smilie icons, read this: http://www.exosci.com/ubb/faq.html#smilies
-Member/Junior member - like dumaurier said, there's no tangible difference. you don't get access to any 'secret' forums. it's just a symbolic representation of the # of posts you've made (30 is the threshold, i think)
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Thanks guys Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
for the help.
Do you agree with my postings or are you
skeptic towards them. In past postings,
you've seemed to agree somewhat to
some extent. However, in some of your
posts, you've seemed to indirectly
disagree with me. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'm not sure. Perhaps it's the usage of
Separate names with a comma.