What is space ?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by river, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Space is not made of anything. It has no ingredients. It has no properties other than dimensions.

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  3. river

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    what dimensions other than mathematical ?
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, there's three spatial ones and a time one. They're physical. You can test them.

    If we didn't have all four, we wouldn't exist.
     
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  7. river

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    This does not get into , what is Space . just the division of Space .

    What is Space asks the Question what is the essence of space.

    Much more difficult to explain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No True Scotsman fallacy.
     
  9. river

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    river said: ↑
    What is Space asks the Question what is the essence of space.


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    For the practice of wearing a kilt without undergarments, see True Scotsman.
    No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample.[1][2] Rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).[3]

    which is totally irrelevant to my replies.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What makes you think that its properties of dimensions are not essential to its existence?
    No dimensions == no space.

    Clearly, dimension is a component of the essence of space.
     
  11. river

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    dimensions are not a component of space but are the consequence of space .
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know? And what is the difference?

    Either way, it's still the essence.
     
  13. river

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    river said: ↑
    dimensions are not a component of space but are the consequence of space .



    Because Space dimensions , divisions , can not exist before space its self . the essence of space is about the ROOM for anything to manifest , to become , therefore to exist .

    Space does not depend on any type of measurement . Space just is .

    the difference is that Space has never needed measurement of its self to exist . why? because without objects these dimensions would be a concept . a consequence of Space .
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Space cannot exist without dimensions.

    There is no room without dimensions.

    Who said anything about measurement?

    Dinosaurs walked left, right, forward, backward, up and down without anyone measuring anything.
    Planets moved left, right, forward, backward, u and down without anyone measuring anything.
     
  15. river

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    river said: ↑
    Because Space dimensions , divisions , can not exist before space its self .


    Space cannot exist without dimensions


    now where did you get this idea ?
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Without dimensions, it would be zero volume. Non-existent. By definition.
     
  17. river

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    by definition

    but Space does not care about dimensions or definition .

    Space just exists

    So the real puzzle is what brought space into existence ?

    plasma then matter , biology

    Or did space come first and then everything manifested within it because these could ?
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Don't know why you think this still.

    There can be no space without 4 dimensions. If even one of those dimensions were zero, space would not exist. Clearly, they are essential.
     
  19. river

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    Okay pretend that you have no knowledge of dimensions , describe space .
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    So: pretend I don't know much about something, then describe it. That's logical.

    R: "The peel is not part of the apple!"
    D: "The peel is part of the apple."
    R: "OK, pretend you don't know apples have peels. Describe an apple without making any reference to the peel."

    Let that sink in for a moment.


    But sure, lets see what this space thing is about.


    Space is a place where things can be far apart. My spaceship can move between things that are far apart.

    I know nothing of physics; all I know is what I observe.

    I do notice that:
    • if I fire ventral/dorsal thrusters, I move up and down, but not sideways or forward/backward.
    • if I fire nose/stern thrusters, I move forward and backward, but not sideways or up/down.
    • if I fire lateral thrusters, I move sideways but not up/down or forward/backward.

    With a bit of experimentation, turns out, I only ever need three - no more, no fewer - sets of thrusters to place myself anywhere I want in space.

    (If I have two or fewer sets of thrusters, I cannot place myself just anywhere in space - I am greatly limited in where I can go.

    If I have four or more sets of thrusters, they are redundant. The push from any fourth set of thrusters can be just as easily accomplished with just the three sets I have.)

    This is intriguing. It is as if, in all of space, there are really only three mutually-independent directions I can move.


    One might even go so far as to label every little bit of space by what forward/sideways/up-down movements I make to reach any given point in space. If I use less than my three sets of thrusters, I cannot define every point (such as, that asteroid there), I can only define an infinite number of points in what I shall call "a plane".

    Oh yeah, and it turns out, no matter how I do it, I am always a little bit older when I arrive. It is as if I cannot avoid moving into the future while moving through space.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  21. river

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    Further

    Say you are on a ship in space , in the middle of nowhere , that needs repair and to make this repair you need to space walk .

    Once on the ship , by magnetic boots , you observe all the space around you , from all directions , filled with stars .

    There is no up-down nor side ways . What you see is stars in a full sphere , surround you . A fantastic sight .

    I got this picture from the book , The Expanse .

    I understood , I felt it right at that moment I read it . It was fantastic
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I've read it.

    You asked me to describe space. Are you going to address that?
     
  23. river

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    Okay what's your point
     

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