What is real, and what can be known of that reality?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by wesmorris, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. Mr. Hamtastic whackawhackado! Registered Senior Member

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    Only fools and madmen are 100% certain of anything. Ever hear of schrodinger's cat? As long as the cat isn't measured it is both alive and dead at the same time. How about the actions of photons? Until you measure the photon it is in multiple places at once(I believe this is a waveform? I might be mistaken) If you measure it it acts like a particle.

    One thing can be said with 100% accuracy about X-nothing is 100% certain about X except that nothing is 100% certain about X.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
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  3. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    You got that right..
     
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  5. Mr. Hamtastic whackawhackado! Registered Senior Member

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    I heard it from a wise man recently... I wish I could remember who so I could give them the credit.

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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Tell me, was this wise person a 100% certain of what he said ? Sounds like an absolute claim to me...
     
  8. Mr. Hamtastic whackawhackado! Registered Senior Member

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    You know, he didn't say. Perhaps he was a madman or a fool. I liked it tho

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  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I've heard the saying lots of times before, I doubt he made it up himself.
     
  10. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Yes Schroedinger's cat. There is no validity to that.
    Furthermore, lots of people believe that there is no such thing as 100% certain knowledge. But this is foolish. All beliefs are 100% certainty about something. It is an irrational contradiction to claim otherwise.
     
  11. Spectrum Registered Senior Member

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    You could touch it...!
     
  12. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Are you certain? (and I am not just being obnoxious or trying to be funny)
     
  13. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Belief is not knowledge.
     
  14. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it is. If you are not 100% certain about something, you are uncertain naturally. Anything you are uncertain about, you do not believe. Belief = Everything you are certain about.
     
  15. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    I suggest you actually look up the meaning of the word knowledge.
    Belief applies to things that cannot be known.
    Knowledge on the other hand appliers to that which can be.
    You can hold beliefs that are not, and never will become, knowledge, merely extremely strong convictions with no factual foundation.
     
  16. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Knowlege is a belief that is true. A belief is anything an individual is 100% certain about.
     
  17. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Knowledge does not require belief.
    Belief is 100% certain?
    Utter nonsense.
    People have their beliefs changed all the time because they were weakly held.
    You hold beliefs with less than absolute certainty.
    100% belief is conviction.
     
  18. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    There is no such thing a belief that is uncertain. I should rephrase to say belief is knowledge that is correct. But it's pretty much the same either way.Achange in belief is often known as a realization. Convitcion is completely irrelevant. You idea an individual's belief is not certainty is uber utter nonesense.
     
  19. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    So how often do you hear "Well I believe so and so but I'm open to argument"?
    Of course belief can be less than certainty.
     
  20. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    How often have I heard the aburd fallacy that being open to anything or not open to anything is possible? It's completely irrelevant. You are basically claiming that belief implies uncertainty which is totally fallacy.
     
  21. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Ooops change of tack...

    I'm not "basically claiming" belief implies uncertainty: I'm stating that not all beliefs are held with 100% conviction.
    Please learn to read what is written instead of what you'd like to reply to.
     
  22. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    WRONG. You are claiming that belief is uncertainty.

    There is either certainty or not certainty. You are claiming that belief is not 100% certainty. Anything that is not 100% certainty is uncertainty. You are claiming that belief is uncertainty.
     
  23. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    You really can't read (or maybe you just can't understand what you read).
    In no way am I making that claim.
    Please read this slowly (more slowly even than your normal rate):

    Not all beliefs are held with 100% certainty, some are, some not.

    Belief in and of itself does NOT imply certainty, but neither implies that it it cannot be certain.

    I am claiming that NOT ALL beliefs are certain.

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