What is "Rape Culture"?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. elsyarango Registered Member

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    78
    I never heard of this. Not sure about its existence. I know racist culture exists. Racists are fairly pervasive from people who just normally stick together relating to each other about races they hate to outright hate groups against other races.
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    This Is Why

    The first time↗ I attempted to engage Kendall Anderson's↱ "I wish I'd never reported my rape", it is true I could only do so obliquely.

    I sit in the windowless interrogation room, fingers brushing against the cool metal of handcuffs attached to the chair, and try to comprehend what the detective sitting across from me is asking.

    “Were you a virgin?” he says, his lips curling slightly as he repeats the question. “Explain to me, how could you have been bleeding if you weren't on your period? Have you had sex before?”

    I feel my face flush with embarrassment as I think about how to respond. Before I can say anything, there's a knock at the door and another officer walks in.

    “The suspect's attorney is here.”

    Suspect? My stomach drops. Did he really just refer to me as a suspect?

    The detective turns to his colleague.

    “She agreed not to have the lawyer come in for this.”

    I open my mouth to object. Our “agreement” consisted of the detective asking me why I needed a lawyer if I was innocent. Before I can speak, the other officer leaves, the door closes and it's just me and the detective again, alone in the windowless room.

    “Let me get this straight, you can't remember how your clothes came off? Well, what were you wearing?”

    Though I am in an interrogation room, and have just been referred to as a suspect, I have not committed a crime. It is October 2013, I am 19 years old, and I am in the middle of reporting that I was raped on my college campus.

    We've tried before↗ to discuss such attitudes and their impacts, including consideration of Steven D's↱ Daily Kos review of an ugly episode at University of North Carolina, "Rape is like football, little missy".

    Okay, the University of North Carolina did not call a rape victim "little missy." They did, however, compare rape to a football game, and not in a way that blames the rapist for, you know, raping the victim:

    “She told me rape is like football, and if you look back on the game what would you have done differently in that situation?” said Annie Clark, describing a school administrator’s response to her sexual assault. Clark said she “absolutely” felt like she was being blamed for the crime against her.

    Another student of the university, Andrea Pino, told CNN that school officials accused her of laziness after she reported lasting trauma from being raped.

    It only goes downhill from there.

    This is hardly uncommon, even in the allegedly civilized world.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Anderson, Kendall. "I wish I'd never reported my rape". Salon. 24 January 2015. Salon.com. 19 November 2015. http://bit.ly/1Dbauhg

    D, Steven. "'Rape is like football, little missy'". Daily Kos. 26 March 2013. DailyKos.com. 19 November 2015. http://bit.ly/1MY7htE

    See Also:

    Dolan, Eric W. "University of North Carolina student: Administrator told me 'rape is like football'". Raw Story. 26 March 2013. RawStory.com. 19 November 2015. http://bit.ly/1QRXres
     
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  5. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    1,654
    Enjoy the Visit!!

    Yes you did.
     
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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    11,570
    I think the attitude of tali, milkweed, wellwisher, etc, are a perfect illustration of why we have a rape culture.
     
  8. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    1,654
    origin has spoken.

    Of course it was only ad hominen but hey... it counts right.

    What exactly is my position other than I dont agree a 'rape culture' exists?

    "The sociology of rape culture is studied academically by feminists, but there is disagreement over what defines a rape culture and as to whether any given societies meet the criteria to be considered a rape culture"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...istics-dont-back-up-claims-about-rape-culture
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    That the evidence of rape culture doesn't exist, that the patterns being laid out in front of you as such evidence are random events rather than patterns, and so forth.

    As with those two links in 245, in one of which a quote substantiating the existence of disagreement about the existence of a rape culture is presented as evidence against such existence, while in the other the lack of a sufficiently dramatic epidemic of rape is presented as contradicting the existence of a rape culture. You apparently find these links relevant and somehow supportive of something here, right? But you don't see the evidence of a rape culture that the second link, in particular, presents.

    As with Tali looking a a video of street harassment and describing it as men "simply saying hello, how are you", denying fairly obvious and repeatedly supported reality is evidence of a need to do so, and in turn evidence of what such a need implies.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,988
    You Are Advocating Crime

    Your position is that a straw man you invented for your personal convenience "doesn't exist".

    Which is fine, insofar as you are denouncing your own fantasy.

    However, in terms of refuting actual advocates who denounce rape culture, you're batting straight zeroes, and advocating rape culture,

    Look, dude, think about someone you know and, well, actually care about. When and if it's their turn, will you resort to half-witted politicking?

    I would hope not. But if you have any integrity, and you actually believe the shit you're saying, that is exactly what you're obliging yourself to.

    You know, in any number of issues it is easy enough to point to the converts and say, "It's because it was one of theirs." Nancy Reagan on stem cells? Dick Cheney on lesbians? Rob Portman on his own son? And, you know, it's always a tough call; we're happy for their support but sad for the circumstances that brought them. And the question that never gets answered is why. Because it really is a tough one to ask.

    But you and Bowser and Tali are trying to denounce various "rape cultures" of your own invention and then hold other people accountable for them.

    This is dishonest, to say the least.

    And by its intended effect, to suppress any real discussion of genuine rape culture, it is rape advocacy.

    You know, dude, when it's someone I know, I fight tooth and nail. If it's ever me, though? I don't know every goddamn thing under the sun but one thing I do know is I have no clue what I will do if it's ever my turn. I would hope to stand and fight to the bitter end. There's at least a fifty-fifty chance that I will curl into a ball and ride it out until I convince myself the memory is contained. There is a statistically significant chance it would outright destroy me. That much I can tell you with confidence, but if it really came down to having to deal with it?

    Look, in my circles I know more and have seen more than anyone else in the role of witness to the damage this crime does. But I also know that after all these years and too goddamn fucking much practice that none of that means anything in the moment that the next time arrives. That I have seen and learned what I have doesn't mean I know a goddamn thing about how to deal with it.

    Your American Enterprise Institute advocate, Ms. Kitchens, is just like you; she can't answer a genuine proposition of rape culture. What rape culture is she refuting?

    Her argument is that some sexual assault isn't assaulty enough, and therefore shouldn't count.

    That is rape culture.

    And you're advocating it.

    You're pushing it.

    In order to denounce your own straw man.

    Do you have any idea what this thing is? This "rape" that we are discussing? Do you have any fucking clue under the sun what it does to human beings?

    Do you actually have any clue what it is you're saying?

    Because here's the thing about what if it's ever my turn.

    It could be in a fucked up place like Louisiana or Kansas, and I will see justice. Because no matter what they think of me as a queer, in those backwaters you do not do that to a man.

    If it's a woman? Well, it's not too hard for them to look for an excuse.

    Now, DV ... that's an issue where queer men are just as screwed as women in "family values" country, but I'm never going to be treated like Kendall Anderson was. They might find a way to give me my own hell, but in places like East Baton Rouge, they will not have it said of them that they had a chance to throw a faggot in jail and passed.

    And there are widespread, deep-seated, even religiously entrenched beliefs and behaviors in every societal culture on this planet contributing to and empowering rape. We can't pretend that what happened to Ms. Anderson is a one-off. Nor Ms. McInerny Purmort's experience in which the response to a woman who does not appreciate sexual harassment is to threaten to rape her.

    Think of Gamergate. They chased a woman and her husband out of their home because she dared to speak against the denigration of women in entertainment software. There was a nearly hilarious episode in which a gunman ... Skyping from his car ... driving to Ms. Wu's house ... in order to―(yes, really)―"challenge her to a street race" ... managed to crash his car while Skyping, whereupon he kept Skyping while he threw a temper tantrum while explaining that she must have known he was coming and sabotaged his car.

    That all went on during a time when my daughter went to Girl Geek Con. For all I criticize SPD, they did their damn job that weekend. We didn't find out until afterward that our daughters were there under a fucking bomb threat against Anita Sarkeesian.

    And I'll tell you this: Add the word "Allah" to what they're doing, and they're terrorists. But barring that, it's "just women", so our society regards it more lightly.

    Threaten to rape a woman to death? Harassment, maybe.

    Threaten to rape a woman to death in the name of Allah? Terrorism.

    RAINN says conscious decisions, but you construe them as pretending those decisions occur in a vacuum. Indeed, it's an interesting letter, because they do a damn good job of letting you think that.

    But if that many decisions to rape are occurring in a vacuum? Somebody please explain how that works.

    Furthermore, given the frequency, over the years, of men not knowing they were committing rape, even to the point of winning acquittal, where does this idea come from? How was it okay in the first place? If he really didn't know, why?

    This describes an observably impossible condition, that the one time acculturation plays exactly no role in the psychosocial structures outlining how any given individual makes a decision just happens to be when men rape women.

    It's complete bullshit.

    And it's why the line you're taking is rape advocacy.

    You are trying to preserve and protect the beliefs and behaviors within a societal culture contributing to rape, and their continued acceptability.

    You are a rape advocate.
     
  11. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    1,654
    And you are delusional.
     
  12. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    264
    Well, this should be interesting.

    Tomorrow night, Sunday, November 22, at 8 p.m. ET, CNN will be airing a documentary on campus rape,"The Hunting Ground".

    But...
    "The Hunting Ground," has been attacked by 19 Harvard Law School professors, who say the film’s portrayal of rape on college campus is distorted, specifically when it comes to their school’s handling of one particular case.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/m...of-harvard-case-in-rape-documentary.html?_r=0

    This article posted by Jazz Shaw says that it’s just promoting campus rape culture hysteria.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2015/11/...ound-to-promote-campus-rape-culture-hysteria/

    There’s also a few circulating stories regarding a condom in a wastebasket.

    "The documentary is shaping the public debate around campus rape. But a closer look at one of its central cases suggests the filmmakers put advocacy ahead of accuracy."

    How The Hunting Ground Blurs the Truth
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  13. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    Male Birds of Paradise: Colourful Sperm Banks or Jungle street harassment?


    This one just left me wondering, is it murder if the toad dies?


    You think this chimp learned this from watching humans or created in a vacuum?

    Speaking of vacuums:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Guess what the above is for? $39.50 @ HerbsDeal.

    But more seriously.

    The contributors’ focus is on sexual selection—in the form of observed patterns of sexual coercion in nonhuman primates—and its implications for the evolution of human behavior.

    http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/despicable-yes-but-not-inexplicable

    Further research found that such violence was not limited to chimpanzees. Male gorillas, for example, were observed ripping infants out of their mothers' arms and smashing them to the ground in often-successful attempts to entice the mothers to mate with them. One theory is that the male gorillas do this to demonstrate their strength and to show how valuable they would be as protectors.

    https://harvardmagazine.com/1997/01/right.chimp.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males

    Maybe it wasnt thus saith the lord:

    Isaiah 13:16King James Version (KJV)
    16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

    Rather it was people learning these things from observing chimps/gorillas. nah. We've always been animals. Football didnt make them do it, video games didnt make them do it and viewing pornography didnt make them do it. Some people who play video games dont even like football. Some people who like pornography cant stand video games.

    There is no binding cultural connection. There are random events inspired by choices made on an individual level.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,988
    Now that you've argued an intellectual and behavioral equivalence between human males, to the one, and birds and gorillas to the other, perhaps you might explain the dimensions and function of this idea.

    Dehumanizing men as defense of rape culture and behavior is an interesting tack.

    I mean, what is anybody supposed to say to that? Oh, hey, let's try this: A'ight, ladies, you heard the man. Strap up, stand your ground, and put down any wild animals that cause you immediate concern for your safety.

    It's one thing to gun down the sleazy stranger in a bar who comes on with a cheap pickup line, but, really, I don't know what to tell my sisters about the moment a best male friend pours a drink and offers it to her.

    You know, I normally use that example as an illustration of the problems of SYG laws in some states, but think about it. Given all of the official advice from police departments about how it is a woman's job to protect herself and prevent a man from even attempting to rape her, it would be a much easier evidentiary burden to meet than shooting someone who is going away from you in a car because you were afraid they were attacking you, or that sure, you chased someone, first in your car and then on foot, while carrying your gun, but that person has no right to stand his own ground.

    Perhaps you might wish to reconsider your comparison of men to wild animals?

    Or is this one of those times when it's okay to label men with such a broad brush because, you know, women?

    "The term 'Rape Culture' is a false flag easily recognized by simple, hey, wait a minute. Most men are not rapists and I dont support portraying them that way i.e. rape culture and I will ridicule attempts made to do so."

    (#57↑)

    So, if you argue that men aren't rapists, but just wild animals?

    Would you at least attempt to explain how this works?

    And your whole birdie-gorilla thing raises another issue:

    Do you acknowledge that women are human beings and have human rights?
     
  15. milkweed Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,654
    Its already explained.

    The contributors’ focus is on sexual selection—in the form of observed patterns of sexual coercion in nonhuman primates—and its implications for the evolution of human behavior.

    Explains it better (imnsho) than culture. Something we all have in common.
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,988

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    This is the part where I'm supposed to say―

    • "The term 'Rape Culture' is a false flag easily recognized by simple, hey, wait a minute. Most men are not rapists and I dont support portraying them that way i.e. rape culture and I will ridicule attempts made to do so." (#57↑)

    • "The contributors' focus is on sexual selection—in the form of observed patterns of sexual coercion in nonhuman primates—and its implications for the evolution of human behavior." (#250↑, 251↑)

    • "Explains it better (imnsho) than culture. Something we all have in common." (#252↑)

    Okay, now I know you're fucking with us. The functional circular paradox is so blatant.

    So let us give you a chance to dig yourself out of that rhetorical pit: Explain those implications, and what who has in common with what and how.

    You know; as in, try actually putting some effort into what you post.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Deutsch, Barry. "Rape and Consent ― Affirmative Consent Explained". Ampersand. 9 October 2014. LeftyCartoons.com. 21 November 2015. http://bit.ly/1s1oRB9
     
  17. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,423
    your misconstruing what an ad hominum is. its a personal attack designed to rebuke the person and not the argument. merely stating your attitudes are indicative of rape culture is not an ad hominum.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,423
    rape culture is about how we view rape is perpatrators and its victims not the act its self. its not really that hard to see. just look at the recent patrick kane rape investigation to see it in action.
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    What? Well no wonder you thought the rape prevalence stats had some kind of decisive significance. Apparently you've been taking this entire matter as a foolish contention that without a rape culture there would be no raping, that a rape culture causes rape to exist, that the members of a rape culture are rapists themselves.

    You must have overlooked the earlier posts, the ones that described rape culture and its field marks.

    There are no "binding" cultural connections. Rape is not a random event. Choices made on an individual level are what comprise all cultures. And so forth. You aren't making any sense
     
  20. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    1,654
    Oh we go even further removed than birds to further such equivalences.

    http://www.livescience.com/2094-homosexuality-turned-fruit-flies.html

    Not there yet but closer.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...ved=0ahUKEwjUg5-fgaPJAhWFFR4KHWjDA8AQgQMIHzAA

    Its not just me. And honestly, I did not know young chimps used toads for sexual gratification. I thought only some people took up bestiality.

    I think rapists have already dehumanized themselves. And I dont think Culture motivates their abhorant and socially rejected behavior. You do. But...

    You have not produce evidence of a rape culture. You have produced crimes committed as outliers of the culture at large and tried to blame anything other than the perpetrator. Its my fault, its Bowsers fault, its quiverfulls fault.. ad nauseaum.

    I just dont agree that is a culture that is responsible. I see the culture as being anti-rape and nothing you have produced convinces me its a cultural issue. Incidents of localized systemic issues, bad rulings, shoddy police tactics, but they are still localized and often politically or money motivated. Thats not culture.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,988
    You're about thirteen years late↗.

    Well, you're right that I haven't produced evidence to support your caricature of rape culture.

    I just don't agree with you assigning your opinion to other people in order to criticize them. It's fundamentally dishonest.
     
  22. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    The truth is I don't watch much television, yet even so, I've seen enough throughout the years to know rape is not a common theme. It's possible that I don't watch enough to be aware of it, but I think it unlikely.

    I live in a large city and interact with people daily, rape is never a topic of discussion, serious or otherwise. Occasionally there might be a news report about a rape in the local area, of course; but it's not something we hear or talk about.
     
  23. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    264
    It’s always a combination of nature and nurture, don't cha think?

    Are you a male, Milkweed?
    I’m curious, Milkweed, do men care more about their status than getting the girl? Are they more concerned with obtaining approval from other men? Does this affect their preference in a woman’s appearance? Is beauty culturally defined? How 'bout masculinity? It’s cultural, isn’t it?
    Would you? You're a male. What do you think, Tiassa? Is masculinity a display for females or other males?

    The score of the US on Masculinity is high at 62, and this can be seen in the typical American behavioral patterns. A high score (Masculine) on this dimension indicates that the society will be driven by competition, achievement and success, with success being defined by the “winner” or “best-in-the-field”. This value system starts in childhood and continues throughout one’s life – both in work and leisure pursuits.

    The Mask You Live In


    Watch this video with young college kids joking about a rape. It's not very easy to watch.

    She’s is so Raped Right Now
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015

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