What is Magnitive

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Asexperia, Oct 11, 2017.

1. sideshowbobSorry, wrong number.Valued Senior Member

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I think you'd better review what transitive and intransitive mean. I would say that both "the table" and "one meter seventy" are direct objects.

3. KittamaruNow nearly 40 pounds lighter.Staff Member

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Your second example there (regarding John) is saying that John is one meter seventy (seventy what? centimeters?), but has the implied word "height" in there (eg, John's height measures one meter seventy centimeters.)

5. AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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I've understood that in intransitive sentences the action of the
verb stays on the subject.

7. sideshowbobSorry, wrong number.Valued Senior Member

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What's the difference between "the table" and "one meter seventy"? Aren't both the "thing" being measured?

8. KittamaruNow nearly 40 pounds lighter.Staff Member

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Moved to PseudoScience since it is obvious that this is not a linguistics and/or science question, but merely an ill-guided attempt to redefine words for no apparent gain.

exchemist likes this.
9. AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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Magnitive stablishes the relation between the observer and some physical
magnitudes like time, force and gravity.
Objective and subjective are relations between the observer and reality.

How do you explain the nature of time, force and gravity?

Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 3:16 PM
10. Michael 345Valued Senior Member

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Pain CAN be measured and is measured

A well known low level pain relief medication has a name made from a combination of a Greek word for pain and the unit of pain on the pain scale

11. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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No.

It can be reported.

There is no objective measurement for pain.
A simple proof of this is that there is no way to determine that my 2-out-of-10 is the same as your 2-out-of-10.

12. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Four properties that are commonly ascribed to qualia:

1. ineffable; that is, they cannot be communicated, or apprehended by any other means than direct experience.
2. intrinsic; that is, they are non-relational properties, which do not change depending on the experience's relation to other things.
3. private; that is, all interpersonal comparisons of qualia are systematically impossible.
4. directly or immediately apprehensible in consciousness; that is, to experience a quale is to know one experiences a quale, and to know all there is to know about that quale.

13. Michael 345Valued Senior Member

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In 1940, James D. Hardy, Harold G. Wolff and Helen Goodell of Cornell University introduced the first dolorimeter as a method for evaluating the effectiveness of analgesic medications.....

........They developed a pain scale, called the "Hardy-Wolff-Goodell" scale, with 10 gradations, or 10 levels. They assigned the name of "dols" to these levels.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolorimeter

Repeat
A well known low level pain relief medication has a name made from a combination of a Greek word for pain and the unit of pain on the pain scale

14. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Yup. And it is the patients that grade themselves. No one - including Hardy and Wolff - know what any given patient actually feels, only what they say. And the patients have no way of rating their 2 to someone else's.

15. Michael 345Valued Senior Member

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The machine I am a little bit more familiar with has a small heating pad and subjects are asked to report when they feel a change in temperature

It might be my 2 is your 1½ or 2½ indicating a lower or higher pain tolerance

After the medication under test is given the subjects are tested again. Effectiveness is measured against the lowering of the tolerance

If I go from 2 to 1 and you from 2½ to 1½ that equates to a objective measure of 1 DOL

16. AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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With pain we make an estimation, not a measurement.
Pain is subjective.

17. KittamaruNow nearly 40 pounds lighter.Staff Member

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Many things are subjective, and still have a measurement. Even an estimation is a measurement, it just has lower accuracy...

18. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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That is not objective. It is subjective.

19. AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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The estimation isn't a measurement, it's introspection in the case of a pain.
A 3/10 for one person can be a 4/10 for another.

Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 12:50 AM
20. KittamaruNow nearly 40 pounds lighter.Staff Member

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Both are still a measure of pain.

21. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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I disagree. Pain is not being measured; it is being purported.

Look:
Pain is a quale (pl. qualia)
"Examples of qualia include the perceied sensation of pain of a headache, the taste of wine, as well as the redness of an evening sky."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Now look at the definition of qualia:
ineffable; that is, they cannot be communicated, or apprehended by any other means than direct experience.
private; that is, all interpersonal comparisons of qualia are systematically impossible.

No person knows how another experiences pain. We can draw comparisons, based on subjectivity, but our own qualia exist in a vacuum.

I say 'm feeling a 2 out of 10.
But you have no idea what my 10 is.
And I have no idea what yours is, so I have no way of calibrating mine.

I posted the XKCD comic above, not just for larfs, but because it makes the very point I'm saying.

Last edited: Nov 18, 2017 at 1:16 AM
22. KittamaruNow nearly 40 pounds lighter.Staff Member

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A comparable measure (even one that is subjective) is still a measure. It doesn't mean it's a GOOD measure, but it is still quantified in some way.

Case in point - if one were alone on an island, and they used their stride to measure out timber to build a hut, it is a measure. Sure, it is one that would not be the same for others due to differences in stride length, but it is a useful measure in the instance all the same.

23. DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Well, yes. That's why I said it's subjective not objective.

I suppose that's a measurement, after all, even if a subjective one.