What is Life?

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Bishadi, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    a conversation piece

    http://dieoff.org/page150.htm

    so i ask a simple question:

    is it the mass that controls the life of an organism or the energy?

    then: what is that energy?
     
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  3. CarpetDiem Burnin' hours, season days Registered Senior Member

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    The energy expended by the fluctuating mass controls the life, including mitosis
     
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  5. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    Why is the moon considered a dead planet? ie... all that mass but what is missing?



    if in the beginning there was awide universe with all that mass; what brings them together? ie.... it's all hydrogen.... equal in all aspects; what brings them together?
     
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  7. Positron Agony: Not all pain is gain Registered Senior Member

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    I know you want a more technical answer, but Life is relative. Personally, I define "life" by a collection of Organic molecules, that eventually "dies."

    What are we but a collection of cells anyways, you could apply a sort of swarm intelligence perspective.
     
  8. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    Pretty standard way of thinking but what it that life reproduces?

    is 'swarm intelligence' meant to suggest look at the bigger scope?

    OK


    ie..... since we all know life evolved and perhaps from the single celled critter a gazillion years back, it seems that evolution proves............the life didn't die. It gave up a portion of itself throughout all them generations and is still alive in all living thing you can see. (that is to open up the scope a weeee bit)

    That is the difference between chemically speaking and thinking; one sees life as the mass, one sees life as the energy upon the mass.

    ie..... a dead person is still all the same mass, but something is missing. What is it? (please don't say the floating spirit thing that flies around looking at people and staring 'into the light.')

    but what is startling in the overall is to find the 'simple mind; don't want to know'

    and that was not being directed at you personally but the general 'complacent community'

    ie..... i will never mislead you based on my personal opinion, i just call'em as i see'em....

    So if evolution is true, then the life of mass is the energy upon the mass; clearly put!
     
  9. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    In a dead person the matter has become disorganized to the point where the chemical reactions that allow life to happen are no longer possible. The chemical reactions of life require organization. If things become too disorganized, life stops.
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    What is Life?
    Perhaps the words of Shelley will suffice.

    "Life, like a dome of many-colored glass," wrote Percy Bysshe Shelley, "stains the white radiance of eternity."
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Lifes a bitch, then you marry one, then you die!:itold:
     
  12. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Life is more than mere chemistry.

    No chemist has been able to create life in a lab with chemicals.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    24,091
    As a method of avoiding creating life, even while depositing well-organized chemicals in the right combinations in a likely location, a chemist telling his girlfriend that it won't happen because they are in a lab is a line I haven't heard of.

    Patterns form on substrates, but they are not merely the substrate. The substrate is necessary, but the pattern is independent of it - the pattern is not the substrate, as waves are not water molecules.

    We call the general commonality of a certain class of patterns in chemicals "life" - and we would continue to call it "life" if we recognized it in a completely different substrate, such as organized magnetic fields. It's not a clear, well-demarcated class - the question of whether viruses are alive, for example, is debated rather than simply answered by quick reference to known properties - but it's not otherwise mysterious.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008
  14. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    8,423
    Both.

    Directed work of course.

    Life as we know it is any system that can seek out energy and persist.
     
  15. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    lungs still work, heart still beating, arms legs, and kidneys going to another as a donation......

    heck even a decapitated body can be kept alive but the consciousness is not there.......

    the life of the mass as a whole is incomplete.

    that all sounded like our global community. too disorganized, all stinky with dying parts....

    THE point is, not ONE chemical reaction is caused by the mass just bumping into each other. ie... take the spark plugs out of your engine and unless you running a diesel, the cylinders will not fire.

    Well that is the same with all chemical reactions. You can put junk together all day long and without the spark, nothing works!
     
  16. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    that's an understatement


    my favorite line is 'chemistry is a joke'


    Bull!

    That is a creationist way of thinking and down right stupid.

    Such that i could go to a place in the middle of the desert. And have not a single microscope and simply with a male and female giving their seed into a plastic cup, and the people never touch and make the women pregnant as if by immaculate conception.


    Simply by adding chemicals together. Maybe messy stuff, but with the simple chemicals that Muhammad himself could verify and a baby could be born.

    So put that scenario in front of any Gyn or pediatric doctor and ask them if it is possible.
     
  17. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,221
    That depends on why the person died. If they died of a collapsed lung then no, the lungs aren't working. If they died of a heart attack, the heart is no longer working. There will definitely be something in the dead person that is no longer working, or the person would still be alive. People don't just die for no physical reason. There is always a physical cause.
     
  18. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    in a sense you are correct, as no energy conveys without mass.

    such that not a light, nor an electron, magnetic field or any other property of energy can convey without mass....

    simply put, mass with zero energy is like BEC... bose-einstein condensate (mass at as cold as man can get it)

    but then if you ever want atom A to combine with atom B, to make a molecule, you must have ? And this applies in every case.

    Meaning, the life of the mass is...................em or a portion thereof In ALL cases!

    That is basically step ONE in logically understanding life.


    Ah..... the energy is doing it..... makes sense.

    But the error in today's thinking is the idea that it must be able to move the mass.... yet in Australia, the oldest archeological evidence shares, the life forms basically make rocks.... they not moving and it take years and years to build the structures, in which not a person alive can see the movement of life of the structure without a microscope.


    So then to see a single atom combining with another single atom, is a matter of how well your microscope can define.

    In any sense of life; the energy is the life of the structures; IN ALL CASES.
     
  19. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    symantics

    as the point is, the life of all things is the energy (light) upon the mass and like i mentioned before, the entanglement of the whole structure is the governing 'life' of the mass caused by the energy. Such that your opinion came from the point that is the 'i' of your body. Not your foot.
     
  20. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Energy and mass applied together are inadequate to define life. Take Earth's sun for example. It's chalk full of mass and energy interacting, yet it isn't alive. The reason is because it is missing some key components.

    1) It has no way to seek and collect energy.
    1) It has no way to persist.

    So while mass and energy DO have to be present for life to exist (at least as we know it), the arrangement of the mass and energy is just as important as that results in function.
     
  21. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    non-sense,

    what are we? Simply mass observing itself and defining......... itself.

    That is funny.

    What is gravity? Even in basic form. How much mass does the earth capture just from solar dust? IN tonage for simplicities sake.....

    Then how much do you think the sun captures? And then again, nothing on this earth is alive without the sun......... pretty much in all cases if time is relevant.

    Perhaps.... us little batches of just a bit of mass don't have the whole story?

    (humbly speaking)


    The sun seems to light up the sky and there is a property of light called entanglement, that you may wish to look up. Scientist can take a photon and note a potential between little 1000 atom blocks of mass (rubidium) because of entanglement. Perhaps you may wish to read up on it.

    Now imagine all that sunlight entangled to all that mass floating around it. Almost like a little person being able to run a whole country.

    Heck the magnetic field alone of the sun is larger than the whole solar system, and that includes Pluto!

    Good stuff.

    now to start with atoms A and B, the rules of association must apply to the little guys and well the big guys, (people or even stars). As we was talking about entanglement a moment ago as well mentioned magnetism and gravity.......

    i say gravity is entanglement... a property of em (light), causing a potential between bodies. At the small is it measured. At the people scale, this post is entangling any who read it. And at the large well Newton did a fine job for mechanics.

    and we all know that magnetism is the other half of em (light), ... like one leg of the cross.... (electric and magnetic fields at perpendicular planes is light)..... (turn the magnetics around a coil and use the electricity; basics)

    them just the basics mentioned in this thread....

    but to return to little atom and energy such like 'in the beginning'... the rules must apply and that is our jobs (people; mass that thinks) to define with as much integrity as possible.....

    so then .... Atom don't do much of anything without you know who......light (eve/energy/energiea).

    all resonance, all momentum, all entanglement to another, even if mass collided and striped a portion of 'state' away creating an ionization.... it all came from em... in one form or another at its root.

    So as we advance..... 'people' began to know itself and describe 'it'...(existence)..

    well guess what, to know what life is upon mass, then we can equally understand 'good and bad'.............. (a whole new chapter)

    so the rules of life, share the whole scope and it has to do with correcting the physics and logic of this generation to understand that 'light' is the energy between all mass.....

    then life can be understood in the universal languages of math, logic and common sense, simply based on a paradigm shift

    light is the energy between mass

    p/s... mass is energy affixed in time. The three combine; mass, energy(light) and time into a weeee little math frame....representing ONE.
     
  22. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    8,423
    We are mass and energy in particular configurations that result in specific functionality. Our core functions are to detect difference, collect energy, and persist.

    "What" gravity is remains unknown. What is known is that it is a weak attractive force. It is also known that the sun, Earth, etc. have no mechanisms of directing that force to something in particular (i.e. to seek something in order to collect it).

    Are suggesting there is evidence that the Sun will use entaglement and gravity to actively seek energy, collect it, and reproduce (i.e. persist)?

    Ooh, you just issued some fantastic claims and went completely pseudo on me. Now I am interested in your personal psychology. How do you define "truth"?
     
  23. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    ah.... rule #2

    Life: purposed to continue (my favorite entropy buster)

    Fair but i differ


    first....... gravity is entanglement in my eyes

    second..... that is a great idea to focus a study on. Perhaps do a calculation as to how much mass is 'perhaps' falling to the sun in relation to how much energy is being kicked out.

    No book ever written is the last word.

    A rule that stands firm to the wise; believe nothing no matter where you read it or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

    Truth of science must meet all skeptics and questions.

    a million beliefs don't make truth

    scientific truths must be reproducible and definable by math.

    Truths of reality must combine logic, evidence with mind and reality.

    in short

    "To live in accordance with the essence of things is the premise of the moral life."

    "One cannot live in peace of mind without at the same time being in harmony with reality.”

    “The premises of a moral life is based on a covenant with reality.”

    “No life is authentic that is in conflict with the order of the universe.”


    And not knowing the order of the universe constitutes a serious handicap in living a moral life!

    So the foundation of 'truth' would be to remain honest.

    ie.... i would not have said anything had it been based on a belief or idea not substantiated
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2008

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