What is life?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Xmo1, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The first replicating RNA molecule?
     
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  3. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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    What is (2^(12))*10000?
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Answers a question with a question.

    163,840,000
     
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  7. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Oops. Misplaced a power there. That's 2^14*10000
    2^12*10000 = 40,960,000

    So, you still haven't answered my question.
     
  9. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Being human, in the modern sense, is not about DNA, but rather it is about changes in the mind/brain that allow humans to depart. Humans have willpower and choice allowing us to depart from the natural instincts. The DNA controls and defines our instincts, with humans able to go in another direction, via will and choice. Humans became more than the sum of their genetic parts, allowing willpower, which then gives us choices beyond the DNA.

    The distinction is like domestic dog versus the wolf. Both have canine DNA and both could be called dogs based on a genetic criteria. But the wolf is driven by DNA based instinct, while the domestic dog can depart from their instincts due to the commands of their owner and the habits they form.

    The most logical place, when this change into human happens is when civilization begins. Civilization required departure from the hunter, gatherer, and wandering instincts that had been in affect for 10's of thousands of years; since the last ice age. This change took willpower to go in a unprecedented direction that was contrary to this long line of genetic habit.

    The pre-humans, with human DNA (wolf analogy) were also around, when the first humans, with willpower, appear. To look at them, both looked the same, because they both had the same DNA. But the new human had a different twinkle in their eye. What had changed in the mind, led to civilization, while the pre-humans were still acting like advanced animals; paradise. The two could cross breed, like Wolf and German Shepherd, due to the same DNA.

    The timing of civilization is close to the timing of the story of Adam and Eve. If you don't get bogged down in bias or literalism, in the story, Adam and Eve were not born, in a natural way, based on genetic reproduction. Adam and Eve were fabricated by external forces, that were not genetic in origin. Adam is formed from scratch; dust, and Eve is a spin-off from Adam; meme cloning. Once the first humans appear, they lead others to change.

    In the rest of the bible, all the births of bible characters are made naturally, in part or whole. Even Jesus forms using genetic changes that are controlled by the body of Mary. The departed humans, in the rest of the bible, were now trying to return home; genetics. The goal was to find that balance so more than the sum of its parts will help its parts to advance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  10. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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    Correction: 10000/(1/4096)
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK, that's anther way of doing it. Still works to the same answer.

    This is really off-topic. I had simply wanted to know when you had started your counting to determine what human generation you are.
    I think we're agreed that the answer is arbitrary.
     
  12. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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    Not if the family tree can be whittled to one.
     
  13. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    One? Do you mean the first replicating proto-cell, or what?
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    The geneologies of Genesis put the creation event about 4000 BC. That's nowhere near the birth of human civilization. Man and his hominid ancestors date back millions of year. Hints of human civilization begin about 80,000 BC. http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/20...an-civilization-moved-back-20-000-years-or-so Your Bible is a big steaming crock of bullshit.
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Nah, God might well have created the earth complete with all the necessary buried remains, with all the "evidence" pointing to a 13.6 billion year age to the universe, as a test to see who would ignore this so-called "evidence" and believe in the literal words of the Bible.
    Remember, God works in mysterious ways, and is completely unfalsifiable. And in the words of many theists: prove that God didn't do it!

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  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    There is a difference between sustained civilization and transitory civilization. The first is based on conscious and deliberate action, while the second can be due to creative inspiration. Conscious and deliberate action will first require creative inspiration, but after that the conscious mind is involved in the sustaining process.

    The time of Genesis corresponds to the invention of written language. Written language is an important part of conscious deliberation. This is what made real sustainable civilization possible.

    Say you went to a lecture in college where there is no note taking and no text books of any kind. All learning has to be done with verbal transfer of information. Few of the students will be able to learn the subject after one lecture, while retaining the knowledge, so they can further extrapolate.

    Once you can write things down and have books for reference, even if you forget or cannot pick things up, fast, there is a way to learn the same thing, again and again. Written language allowed consistency.

    In the beginning was the word!
     
  17. Waiter_2001 Registered Senior Member

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    They were around THE SAME period. Plenty good tunes about it...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The academic definition of "civilization" is "the building of cities." The essence of a city is that strangers can live together more-or-less in peace. This requires a hierarchy of leadership (i.e., government), formal procedures for adjudicating disputes (i.e. laws), and an abstraction for recording debts in small units (i.e., money).

    The first cities were built around 9000BCE, a few centuries after the dawn of the Neolithic Era (the "late stone age"), when the technologies of farming and animal husbandry required people to give up their hunting and gathering way of life with its long periods away from home, and settle down in permanent, separated homes, which could now be much larger and more comfortable than caves, providing space for furniture, tools and food storage.

    The first cities were small by today's standards, with only a few hundred inhabitants, but that's enough for them not to all be acquainted, or even know each other's names.

    The word "civilization" is often used colloquially, emphasizing tolerance and peacefulness, and that surely describes many of the Paleolithic communities, which typically topped out at around 100 members. These clusters of caves could generously be called "towns" rather than "camps," but they were hardly "cities," and without cities there is no civilization.

    However, your 80KYA figure does come close to a different but equally important advance in human culture: the technology of spoken language. Around 70KYA we begin to see evidence of complicated, coordinated activities that could not possibly have been performed by people who were, at the same time, communicating with their hands. This is about when the first evidence of clothing appears (we know this because that's when head lice and body lice separated into two species), and a few thousand years later the first successful migration of Homo sapiens out of Africa occurred, beginning our ancestors' gradual spread over nearly the entire planet.
     

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