What is backstop?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    It means free movement between Northern Ireland and Ireland?
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    It means the arrangement that would be put into operation, if no other solution can be found in the course of negotiating a trade deal between the UK and EU, to prevent a hard border on the island. Hence the term backstop, i.e. last resort solution.
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    real ireland and fake ireland ...
    (humour)

    this is what the border will look like with no backstop & a hard BREXIT

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  7. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    backstop means hard border? need immigration and custom check point? Correct?
    need passport too?
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No. Read post 2.
     
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    some people want a simple answer
    the solution is far from simple
    many businesses trade with the economic union(EU)
    this means their currency is tied to the value of their economy
    the value of the currency directly effects jobs
    it also directly effects basic business

    if and or when the UK leaves the EU
    it will mean that Ireland will suddenly have an international border and forced currency exchange in the middle of their country.

    they will have to stop on the side of the road and pay tax
    declare goods
    show their passport
    every truck
    every car
    every trip to the local shopping mall

    any time they go down the road and they cross the border, they will be forced to produce travel documents which many of them may not have and would have to go and pay for.

    the added search and regulation of goods moving across the border would be soo crippling to the smaller market that it is likely to spike inflation inside that smaller market.

    this is why i posted the pictures of worthless money in massive inflation countrys

    it would undermine the value of wages paid to the average person and force upon them currency conversion changes and such like compliance costs
    which would be a forced cut in wages and a forced increase in the cost of goods.
    inflation of goods
    cutting of wages

    considering the massive financial hit that Ireland took after the 2008 global credit collapse, it would seem like cruel and unusual punishment for their long hard years of fighting to get back on their feet.

    the average person who voted for BREXIT has no real understanding of this reality.

    a top priority of the UK should be to look at urgently making arrangement to allow Ireland to continue business as usual without sudden massive compliance and currency costs being dumped on them.
     
  10. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    so backstop means "you have to stop at the border" for checking.
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    it means you must purchase a passport... if you can afford one.
    you must now pay duty and/or government tax on anything your carrying.
    you must declare everything your carrying
    you may be arrested for carrying some things or have them taken off you permanently

    it will be an effective international border subject to the same type of checks you get at air ports and international borders.

    that is a hard BREXIT for Ireland with no deal worked out between them and the UK

    all their business will be disrupted and they will suddenly be having to pay tax on things they previously did not.
     
  12. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    3,144
    I get confused as to which scenario is the "backstop" and which is not. (To me, a "backstop" is that fence behind home plate in baseball.)

    Anyway, my understanding of the problem is that no one wants to have to go through customs when they travel between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. The alternative would be going through customs when traveling between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. And the Northern Irish/British don't want that either...

    Sounds like someone didn't think this through.
     
  13. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Just to be clear, the term “backstop” has been explained to you: it is a position of last resort, I.e. if all else fails, that is the position you will end up with.
    With regard Brexit, and the deal that Theresa May had agreed with the EU (but not agreed with our parliament), the backstop says that in order to avoid a hard border (i.e. passports, checks etc) Northern Ireland would need to remain in very close alignment with the European Single Market, and the UK as a whole within the European Customs Union, until an alternative solution is found to prevent a hard border.

    The problem with it, for some people, is that it effectively means the UK won’t leave the EU in any significant way until a solution is found, and the UK wouldn’t have the ability to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop agreement. It is ironic that the insistence on this backstop will likely force the UK into a “hard Brexit” that will almost certainly result in some form of hard border Between Ireland and Northern Ireland, which is what the backstop is aimed at trying to prevent.
    If the EU remove, or soften the backstop to something more palatable then the UK could leave with a deal, and it would be far more likely that we’d end up with there never needing to be a hard border.

    But the two sides can’t agree. And now they’re both trying to blame the other for being intransigent and thus the resultant mess.
     
  14. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    3,577
    Northern Ireland and Ireland any big difference in culture?
    They both speak Irish English?
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    No huge difference in culture. But NI has been defined by a conflict between religious beliefs (Catholic v Protestant) and between Unionists and Nationalists (I.e. those who want NI to rejoin the rest of the island of Ireland as a single country, and those who want to remain part of the UK).
     
  16. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Why not Ireland becomes like Scotland, join UK?
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Have you read any history?
     
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  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Back Stop is Tory MP's eating mushy peas for breakfast lunch and dinner while dreaming of being locked in a pie shop over night

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  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Seems like a waste, what, after the Revolution, and all.

    I remember you back in the GPO with Connolly and Clarke,
    Laughin' with McDermott through the bullets and the sparks;
    Always with the smart remark, your eyes blazin' and blue,
    But when we needed confidence we always turned to you.
    And when they shot our leaders up against Kilmainham wall,
    You were there beside us in that awful Easter dawn:
    Hey! Big fella! Where the hell are you now,
    When we need you the most?
    Hey! Big fella! C'mon, tabhair dom do lámh!​


    (Black 47↱)
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    8,692
    Because Ireland has had a miserable last four centuries as a colony of Britain and only freed itself in 1922. For them, membership of the EU is a chance, finally, to put their historical dependence on Britain behind them once and for all.

    If you read the news, you may be aware that there is a strong movement in Scotland to free itself from the UK. The current UK government policy of a hard Brexit is fanning the flames of this sentiment. It is now quite likely that, within a decade, the UK will no longer exist.
     
  21. Curious layman Registered Member

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    If you read the news, you may be aware that there is a strong movement in Scotland to free itself from the UK. The current UK government policy of a hard Brexit is fanning the flames of this sentiment. It is now quite likely that, within a decade, the UK will no longer exist.[/QUOTE]


    Agreed, always thought Scotland leaving was inevitable in the medium/long term, but brexit, especially now, has pretty much guaranteed it, I reckon it could be within the next 5-10 years.

    I don't really care if Ireland or Scotland leave to be honest, if I was in their position, I'd want independence as well, we've not been the greatest neighbors throughout history have we? And why not, good luck to them.

    To me, the problem with brexit, is that its been too much (or comes across this way) of an English decision, I'm in Wales (U.K.), and it feels like we're watching from the sidelines. Like we're not really involved in the negotiations. Doesn't feel like it's the U.K. negotiating, just England.

    Not that I give a rats arse about any of it, I lost interest in politics years ago, I'm more concerned about an asteroid hitting earth than this.
     
  22. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Ireland can be self autonomy, while being part of UK, is it possible?
     
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    What a stupid question. I have already pointed out to you there is no way, at all, Ireland will consider rejoining the UK. So your question does not arise, in any imaginable scenario.

    In the 1950s, over 80% of Ireland's exports went to the UK. Today it is 11% and falling. Ireland will suffer if there is a hard border, but not nearly enough to give up their hard-won independence, especially given the painful history of these islands.
     

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