What interactions with theists say about God

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by wynn, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

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    I like it.

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    Kind of like the "Blind Watchmaker" argument, yes?
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    your interpretation is through traditional religious terms but i don't get why you think this is unusual or even contradictory as far as humble/empowered, especially since you are using a god concept.

    explained another way would mean that the humility is the acknowledgement that we don't know everything nor does what we do know is not the foundation of all there is, there could be even more we don't know on a deeper as well as higher level (which is true even literally). this is what you mean by humility.

    as for humbing and empowering, if god is more powerful and all knowing as well as the creator of the universe which is a prevalent belief among theists, then of course you would be humbled as well as receiving divine revelation from god would be empowering as well.

    didn't i just explain what you said essentially in a more understandable way?? lol
     
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  5. Mutawintji Registered Member

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    From my conversations with Theists ....

    The only view that counts is a subjective one ... objective views must be interpreted in light of subjection to the Gods.

    The theme; Man must submit to God as the absolute authority; the commands and actions of God are beyond any scrutiny. While the adherents of this interpretation may not understand God’s commands, they agree that they should be obeyed regardless.

    Mutawintji
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    you know when even scientists or astronomers besides regular folk look out into space, they are awestruck by it. the sheer vastness for one and all they don't know. they wonder at all the possiblities. they even wonder about other universes that may be unlike this one.

    you don't have to have a fixed defined concept of god or religion to experience life or to have a sense of wonder about what life is, means or what else could possibly be out there. good, bad or indifferent.
     
  8. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    yes thank you. you'll never hear me claiming to be eloquent.
     
  9. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Sort of... It's a valid question. If anyone wants to make design anything other than a philosophical question, then they need to define how you know design when you see it. Otherwise, it's not a testable hypothesis.
     
  10. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Whether or not they know exactly who she is not the point. The fact that she is believed to have been the recipient of the letter at the time, which would be consistent in that regard with the rest of the NT letters, is. I made that pretty clear.

    We're having this debate because you're insisting that your claim that one of the letters of the NT is addressed to you specifically is not an extraordinary claim.

    Everything you say at the moment is contextualized by your extraordinary claims and the manner in which you've chosen to engage other members recently. If you want diplomacy and sensitivity then try conducting yourself in a manner that invites it.

    My comments about emotions and what "feels" right weren't designed to characterize warm and fuzzy feelings. They were designed to highlight the subjectivity of your experiences and the fact that as such they are not a reliable indicator that you've found any sort of objective truth.

    I don't necessarily think that you've purposefully and/or consciously contrived anything, but I think there's a very good chance that you've endeavored to make sense of your experiences in a way that makes you feel unique and special, and then multiplied it by 10.

    Again:

     
  11. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Subjective claims cannot be shown, no matter where and when whatever person claims to have talked to a God, felt a God, or sensed a God. These often finely-crafted fairy tales down through the ages and now have no value that can be shown to anyone.
     
  12. Mutawintji Registered Member

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    rotflmao ....... Sounds like an Angel thats been set a task by God but would prefer a career change ..... lololol

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    Mutawintji
     
  13. Mutawintji Registered Member

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    Hello SciWriter ...... Have we met before .......

    :cheers::cheers:


    Mutawintji
     
  14. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps in Australia or on some forum under another name but I don't think so. Thanks for the beer and good to meet you. Are you from Brisbane?
     
  15. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    As you can see, Rav is one cool guy. Be sure to drop in on him in Melbourne next time you go out for a 5000 mile drive.
     
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    :shrug:

    I thought you were here to spread the truth.
    One would think you'd put some effort into it.
    I mean, considering the importance and all..

    In fact, Lori, I think you have an obligation to tell us everything you know in as much detail as humanly possible.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, but then that would mean we wouldn't be taking responsibility for our beliefs about God! That can't be!

    *gasp*
     
  18. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed. This is a discussion forum, not a private setting for friends to meet.
    Many problems in online communication arise because people have very different ideas of what the context of these discussions is.


    I think this is where the Protestant doctrine or one with Protestant leanings comes in, though.
    A Protestant in effect considers themselves authoritative in matters of God, and thus maintains that they can unilaterally obligate others in matters of God.
    This is something a Catholic or a traditional Hindu, or even a Mormon, would not likely do.


    This is how I interpret that as well. I have tried to talk about this with many theists who propose that "we just need to be sincere", and those attempts all proved futile.


    Yes. In religions such as Catholicism or some traditional Hindu schools, there is the institute of checks to verify a claim about God. According to them, if one is to make a certain claim about God, then this claim needs to be in line with 3 sources: scriptures, one's teacher and saints. If it is not, it cannot be promulgated as a claim about God.


    Yes ...


    About six months ago, we were in a short private exchange. She amply expressed how she supports my search.

    Over time, her attitude toward me deteriorated.

    This change from supportive to hostile suggests that she has been operating with a set of parameters for what is an acceptable time-frame and content-scope in the "search for God", and what is not. She was basically giving me an ultimatum - but she has not informed me of that. Nor was there any other discussion about the terms of our relationship and no conclusion or agreement. When I failed to live up to her expectations (of which I knew nothing), she rejected me, and now apparently considers it open season to publicly criticize me, and in that includes all of my past behavior, even the one from the times when she was supportive.

    Such a change from supportive to hostile, without there being any clarification of the terms of the relationship between us, suggests control issus on her part.

    It appears that her formerly expressed support was actually another attempt to control me. Many people, when they are frustrated with someone, resort to offers or declarations of support, love or friendship, saying "I love you / I want to be friends with you / I support you in your efforts" when what they actually mean is "This is my last attempt to get you to get straight." Their words speak "acceptance", but what their speaker means with them is "impending rejection."

    The result proves the actual initial intention, regardless of the words that were spoken.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  19. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    With a family member, coworker, boss, close friend or other important person in your life, I think it is prudent to be very careful about such topics, and focus primarily on the relationship.

    I think that it really does pay off to work on one's communication skills. (Which have nothing to do with ID and such.) There are textbooks and courses for that. I can suggest some if you'd like.

    Sometimes, people bring up scientific or philosophical topics with their family members etc. not because they are interested in the topic, but because they wish to reassess the relationship they have with the other person.
    Perhaps they want to cool it. Perhaps they are want to set an ultimatum - "If about topic X you don't believe such and such, then we cannot be friends." Perhaps they have felt neglected and are now trying to rouse one's interest or retaliate for the neglect.

    If a conversation gets heated (as seems to be the case with your father), it might be more than ID that is on his mind.
     
  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    BG 7.16: O best among the Bhāratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me — the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute.
     
  21. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    Enmos I have over 10,000 posts. I am quite certain I have told you everything, especially about god.

    This really makes me mad and hurts me and I am crying right now. I have poured my heart out on this forum in detail and in painful truth for over a decade now, because I do feel an obligation. As far as I can tell everything I've said has been dismissed, discounted, contended with, or attacked.

    After everything I've shared on this forum over the years, why in the world would you say something like this to me?
     
  22. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    Rav's most recent response, every response signal has ever made, every response you have ever made enmos, are some of the most polite and benign examples of every response I've ever received out here. In over a decade I can count on one hand the positive or even neutral responses I've been given. I have shared everything. An abortion, a divorce, a mental and emotional breakdown trying to deal with what happened to me, my own disgust with religion, things about my family and my personal struggles that most people would not share. I have been absolutely honest with you people.

    And now I'm being absolutely honest when I say "fuck you". I'm gone.
     
  23. Fuse26 011 Banned

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    Wahhh, wahh, :bawl: I don't belive in you, you do not exist until you prove to ME that you exist. :bugeye: :shrug: I don't know who some of you people think you are. I'll be quite happy when some of you are dead.
     

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