what if a human fell in love with a robot?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by creamsoda, Mar 26, 2003.

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  1. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    You make good points but we still don't understand how the beginning process of neuron firing to what eventually causes the reciving neuron to fire works. You are right in saying that a neuron is a sort of a digital counterpart and that a neuron firing is a all or none event but what actually causes it to fire in the first place is a not comprehended yet and when it sends a signal to another neuron, which in turn is also reciving signals from hundreds or thousand other neurons, it still isn't known what causes that reciving neuron to fire or not. How does it balance out all those signals and then decide if it should fire or not. So can we really replicate what we don't even understand in A.I. Robots are nothing but mindless, emotionless, and mechanistic as long as they don't achieve perfect A.I.....and i don't see them doing that in ten years like you say...or even 20...hell even 100 years. Emotion is not preprogrammed algorithms that are expected to be reproduced in A.I...they are still not understood as to how they come about in the human brain so how do you replicate them in a processor.

    Also i don't understand what is this burning need to replicate the human brain in digital format.....why do we want to create another form of life: silicon based..that is seemingly better than us, as it improves upon on our imperfections...do we really want to play the role of god that badly and can we really control what we have created. Instead of making ourselves better through another lifeform we need to work on ourselves more.


    I know i am gonna piss of a lot of people and excuse the spelling please
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Actually we understand quit a lot about neuron activity and have successfully simulated the neuron network of an earthworm already... Yes human are many orders of magnitudes more complex then an earthworm but that not to say we are to complex for are own good. Once computers are capable enough to outmatch us in every cognitive way it won’t be hard to make AI of even higher intelligence. Making AI emulate human emotion and behavior won’t be that hard either, only require simulating our brain design.

    Actually one of the goals to making mental copies of are self’s is a way to cheat death.
     
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  5. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Yes but to do what we are asking to do: simulate love....honest to god love with indvidualistic characteristics will take a quite more time then people expect it to.....we might know a lot more about neuron activity now but i still think the mind hasn't been mapped to it's completion yet and that's what is needed to replicate it.


    Also why cheat death....you'd think a person would get tired of living at one point.
     
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  7. kaduseus melencolia I Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't know that the brain had been figured out quite as simply as that, here I am trying to figure out the complex relationships between the geometry of the neural cortex, the geometry of the brain cavity, and the form and function of the body; going back and forth trying to reconstruct the form of the body from only the brain cavity and trying to reconstruct the geometry of the brain from the function of the body; and all the time it's neural networks. well I never!
    So when you build your intelligent machine it will have a large square block for a brain, you'll not bother about the neural geometry at all and just let it wire itself up as a single neural blob.
    Thats nearly as bad as that twat who wants to randomly wire up ic's in the hope that one day they will become intelligent.

    Intelligence is not proportional to the number of neurons.
    something with 80,000 neurons is not twice as intelligent as something with 40,000.

    You can make machines emotional, if you really want to, it's a matter of design.

    As for the question of wether I know what it is to love or is a bit fick : - the most elaborate behaviors are nothing but chains of conditioned reflexes - Ivan Pavlov

    Keith

    Did you know that the university libraries in the uk are now closed to the public, seems that knowledge is now a property that is only accessable to those that can afford it.
    Thing is the middle classes are just as thick as us poor people, though they do have certificates to prove they is not thick.
    Where are my firelighters?
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    One of the advantages to coping your self into a computer would be that you can modulate your thoughts and emotion at will... so you can make it so you never get bored

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    The real truth is that we are machines made by billion of year of Darwinian evolution from nothing (or yes maybe a god started it all what every you want to believe). If we can exist with the emotions and thought we have then it is not at all impossible to make machines of are own that can emulate all that and more. Societies and technology evolve by the laws of Lamarckian evolution and Lamarckian evolution is millions of times faster then its natural Darwinian counterpart.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2003
  9. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    But what is the real need to Replicate that into A.I...not copy ourselves into a computer but replicate our brain functions in A.I that eventually turns into another being on another element based platfrom (silicon if i stand correct unless they find a new platform for computers). I say work on improving our own ignorance of ourselves, not on finding new ways to dethrone ourselves.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Good old Cybernetics then? Well in the end we will have ended up replacing are self’s completely, not a bad way in fact the most likely future for us.
     
  11. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    albeit a sad future...it seems people see machines and technology as the only answer on the horizon. It's a easier way out i guess rather then self learning.
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Don't worry in 1000 year a lot of people will have evolve like this but there will still be a lot of Amish and Fundamentalist like you left here on earth. The rest of us will move on to better things.
     
  13. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    I am not Amish or a fundamentalist...and i am all for technology but what you seem to propose here is just pathetic...Technology is there to make our lives better not to colmpletely make us dependent on it. It's so sad people don't realize that their tools are slowly taking over them. I think computers are amazing and i have been called a geek because i love them but to be one eventually to me seems really a step down for a human being rather than a modification...so yeah if that makes me a fundamentalist in your book then so be it...but in a 1000 years when people like me look up at star lit sky and realize how beautiful it is..people like you'll be in a room somewhere in a basement hooked up with wires imagining a star lit sky. Technology can make us great... but as a tool, not as a unaviodable future. We don't need it to invade in every crevice of our body..why can't it be just a great benefector from the outside as it is today albeit a lot more efficient.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Not dependent, we become it see the diffrence?

    Actually in 1000 years people like me (and possible me… well my soul copy at lest) will be running on server inside of a asteroid and connect to a vast network across stars. You on the other hand will die and your humans will remain stagnate forever tell they kill them selves off or the sun gets to hot and goes nova.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2003
  15. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    You almost sound like you don't even consider yourself human.....
     
  16. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Oh Im human but would rather not be

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  17. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Oh so that's why we are arguing...a intelligent argument by the way..well atleast i consider it intelligent by my standards.....but for you i don't know...seriously i can't keep up with some of the people here (mainly most of em)......you are too damn smart..there i said it...credit should be given where it's due and i must say you are a intelligent person (unless you use google for all answers but i doubt it).


    Anyway, i wanna remain human but you don't....so i guess i want a Pentium 231 in 1000 years (they are up to 4 now so by then at least 231 give or take a few numbers) and you want to be one. Not a bad thing either way just a choice of living..here's to your wishes coming true

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  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Dam If I could only find a emoticon for @$$ kissing… But anyways thanks

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  19. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    i guess a compliment isn't appreciated these days....and i don't need to kiss your ass, mine is enough thank you

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  20. creamsoda Registered Senior Member

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    I appreciate all of the very intelligent insightful posts this thread had recieved, you people are true thinkers!

    I suppose this question came from my present obsession with A.I. and B.E.N.
    I do not really like humans as much as i like things that i can only imagine. They are not perfect, B.E.N. is far from perfect infact (Eli, you probly think I'm nuts...well, oh well) anyway, I just find his more design more attractive than humans are. I do not know why, I have been trying to asnwer that question for some time now. HUmans attract me, that's for sure, but I'm more attracted to mystery than anything else. People I don't know that well, that are a little odd intrigue me. Especially insane people. Don't ask, I can't asnwer.

    I suppose AI might develope in the next 1000 years the way i dream it to. I do not want robots to look like people. I have problems with liking the human structure...although some people are an exception. Select few.
    If we were to create an A.I. machine, then we would definetely want a limit on it's intelligence. Not make it intelligent enough to take over and destroy us.
    Also a concience wouold be neccessary, they would need to dechipher between right and wrong, but...temptation would have to still be there to make it humanistic.
    This is harder than i thought. Shows how much i think in a day. Oh well.
    For now, I'll just drw my fav little robot
    B.E.N.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Oh they won't need to limits its intelligence, just its free will.
     
  22. MFrobotH43D Registered Member

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    A lot of this discussion seems to hang on the assumption that the hypothetical AI will be designed in someway similar to the way current electronic systems are designed, e.g. understanding a system and creating what is needed from scratch based on that understanding.

    Is human level intelligence within the reach of human understanding?

    Or is it too complex a problem, even for the most brilliant engineers?

    Intelligence has been engineered by nature. By learning to tweak the natural laws using some kind of evolutionary design process (similar to evolutionary algorithms used to create a-life simulations), we could hope to achieve human level intelligence.

    Unfortunately we loose control of the product this way. we can guide it but not engineer it in a traditional sense. Subsequently, the end result is probably unrecognizable as human, but able to do what we need it to do. We end up with a really smart, alien intelligence.

    Can we learn to love something that isn't human? Think about the kind of relationship you might be able to have with a dolphin... interesting, but probably not romantic love (albeit, dolphin intelligence isn't on par with our own... at least in the way I define intelligence)

    Of course, once an vastly more intelligent system is evolved, It might be able to design the human-like intelligent systems we could desire as partners.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Ha AI will require a very different kind of CPU then what we use today. Its going to need neural networks or FPGA of incredible size. Their CPU will need to be unsynchronized like are brains (no clock) and will need to store terabytes of data in the CPU its self. Neural network design has not improved much since the 1960's because it was believe at the time to be unprofitable. FPGAs are common today but none are design fast enough or large enough to compete with an ant in intelligence. As for the other needed features well were going to need to wait for molecular spintronics before that happens (say 20 years)
     
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