What happen to the chimps, since 8 million years

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by timojin, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Where is the hiding? And many religious people believe in evolution. One only has to be somewhat educated; there is at least one excellent book on evolution by someone who was self-educated.
     
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  3. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I and you are multicellular, so what. At what point life started on clay, Wy Mars, Venus, and other don't have life. Apparently no one spit on that clay that had some living cells, but choose Earth.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Why is it useless? You and your brother have a common ancestor (either one of your parents.) You and any random guy on the street have a common ancestor if you go back far enough. You and the bonobo you see at a zoo have a common ancestor. You and your dog have a common ancestor. You and your grass have a common ancestor. By studying the path of evolution that brought us from single cell organism to man (and all the different branches along the way) we learn more about life, genetics and evolution. Which is a good thing, and far from useless.
     
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  7. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah right, the poor baby, we should really give him a chance.
    Do you now think maybe Timojin had an agenda?
     
  8. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Since you are so clever what is my agenda ? I don't get paid , Me voicing my opinion is my agenda . There is a pot full of BS that is speculate in science , I don't claim on the wagon and claim and say I am a scientist.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? I don't know. Do you find the fact that we are multicellular interesting? If not, why did you post it?
    No one spit on the "clay" where life began on Earth, either.
     
  10. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    To push your belief in God.
    You get to go to heaven that is a form of payment, right?
    That is the agenda part. You pretend to ask serious questions on a science site when all you really want to do is to push your religious beliefs. It's OK to have an agenda, my agenda is promoting science - I just happen to be honest about my agenda.
     
  11. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    So tell in the billion of year and changing environment some right chemical got together and "whaloo " RNA fas formed . Or trow at me the probability in billions of year something happen , or down in the ocean in the fumarole some RNA was formed . I went through much hearing that BS, For me as a chemist , give me some real things then I will buy it otherwise I will wait . I am not sure I am going to se in my life . So for me Atheism is a religion or anti creation , so ar theism is a religion for creation.
     
  12. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I ask questions in my belief also Your agenda seams waving a flag of atheism . I don't know if I will get to heaven . but you are so sure of your religion ( Atheism ) , and you want to shut down who don't agree with your religion ( atheism )
     
  13. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    He doesn't want to shut down religion, he wants to shut down people lying about science in order to promote their religion.
     
  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Are you confusing evolution and abiogenesis?

    There is more scientific support for the Theory of Evolution than almost any other theory in science!
     
  15. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    We don't actually have a flag.
    Well since just about every religion say everyone else is going to hell it looks like no one gets to heaven.
    I have no idea - I just go with the most logical.
    The majority of the religious people I know are good people, of course most of the nonreligious people I know are good people too. The only religious people I would like to 'shutdown' are the zealots that cause destruction in the name of religion and the ones that want to legislate their beliefs into our school systems. And the dishonest ones that come to forums to push their religion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, not "whaloo." There were hundreds of millions (not billions) of years of first steps that failed; chemicals got together and nothing happened. Then one day, out of those trillions of combinations, a compound (not RNA or DNA, something simpler) was created that had one difference - it could create partial copies of itself from the basic chemical building blocks present in the early seas. This wasn't yet life, just a partially self replicating molecule. It made a LOT more copies of itself since it had no predators, no competition, nothing but raw materials.
    Immediately it started to change, because it wasn't yet very good at copying itself. It made mistakes. Other chemicals screwed it up. Ultraviolet light screwed it up. It couldn't make complete copies, so it had to rely on random chance to do final assembly of the parts it did make. It would stop unless conditions were perfect. But out of those trillions of failures, one or two copies were better than the original. And those better copies replicated a little better. Still nothing you would call life, but the process of evolution had begun.
    In time, other changes came along that were better. Something closer to RNA, then DNA, formed. At one point the chemical reactions found themselves inside a bubble, and the bubble contained the reactions a bit better while still allowing raw materials to diffuse in. And thus the first cell arrived.

    From there we have a fossil record (stromatolites) so we have a good sense of what happened.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
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  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Still nothing you would call life, but the process of evolution had begun.
    In time, other changes came along that were better. Something closer to RNA, then DNA, formed. At one point the chemical reactions found themselves inside a bubble, and the bubble contained the reactions a bit better while still allowing raw materials to diffuse in. And thus the first cell arrived.

    Let me add to your scenario. I believe you know what a virus is . So a virus can be sitting for minions of years . it will do nothing unless there is a machinery ( other component in the cell )
    I had the idea of the bubble long time , that is nothing new ( the principle of latex paint ) or micel . but the point here becomes ideal concentration of monomers to diffuse into the micel.
    the other thing is how you will produce Ribose to bind phosphate to the pyridine and stability.
    Things have been tried so far . zilch , even the miller experiment , did not go any further wich is over 60 years ago.
    I am not to sure that I am to far from your understanding at the present literature . Unless the atheist know some secrets.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It did indeed go farther.

    Miller-Urey, 1952. Produced hydrogen cyanide, formaldehyde, acetyelne, cyanoacetylene etc.
    Oro, 1961. Produced adenine, a nucleobase.
    Cleaves-Bada-Miller, 2008. Produced several amino acids.

    I have no idea. Scientists, both atheists and religious, have discovered a lot over the years about how abiogenesis can occur.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    And here I thought we were talking about chimps and humans and evolution...

    Is origin correct? Is this a prelude to a discussion about theism? Because you sure seem to have picked up on that quickly.

    If you want to discuss theism and atheism, then this thread should be closed and another opened about theism and atheism. Cuz the title of this thread is about ancestry of chimps.
     
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  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    This is not about religion . the religion comet in when I have been accused to have a agenda , with respect to my believe in the Creator .
    I did give thank for your diagram , and I told you that I am not in an agreement how is presented .
    There is always, if some one don't agree with current thinking is branded to have an agenda As to me current theory or thinking are dynamic with time .
    I in a polite way filled you in . Please don't start to manage were goes were . In this case of science . We don't know what happen at the beginning and it is improper to pretend that we know.
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Please don't pretend to be a skeptic. Your agenda is that the creator made humans without going through the intermediate steps, which can be observed in our DNA, the fossil record, and bone morphology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
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  22. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You are wrong . look into Genesis 1 you can see evolution in progress ,And that was written way before Moses . Now Davkins the son of a protestant discovered in the 20 th century , and sett the Creator aside and sold his books to feed the so called open minded.
     
  23. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, boy. You're in a position to define open-minded?

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