ahh!!!! but to do so would violate the law that says aliens can't exist. Ha.....[sorry it took a while to work out your humorous challenge] Serously though, There are many "things" locked away in our unconscious minds, techniques and "sciences" that would normally be called sacred or fundemental to existence. To speak of these things directly with out grounding places a vexation on the speaker and the listener. the knowledge is naturaly rejected as this is it's purpose. A person who is not grounded in this knowledge ends up seeming quite insane. A lot of people will come to the forum espousing strong beliefs about certain truths that they feel they have experienced. The truth of their experience is so over whelming that the can not do anything but wish to expose it to others but in doing so loose all credibility and usually their ability to function in society. You ask can the body be mastered and I said I believe so but it is not founded. What I really wanted to say was I know so and I have yet to prove so. How do I know so? Some people talk of having certain extraordinary knowledge from a few experiences they have gone through. I on the other hand have had literally 1000s of these so called extraordinary expereinces. I have so much truth I have no idea what to do with it all. In fact even as I type I am experiencing what would be considered an extraordinary expereince. So in the backgoround of my discussions is always an element of restaint in waffling about stuff that can not be accepted as valid due to lackings in provablity that would satisfy the ardent skeptic. So excuse me if my standing on the issue of Samsara seems so contraversial. I know I am correct but of course to be so comes into direct conflict with popular beliefs. I have witnessed the re-birth "sciences" first hand including the physics involved and am still attempting to understand that experience and place it in a context that is explainable. It is the nature of our minds to disect the whole experience subjectively and in doing so the truth of the experience is lost to speculation and the limitations of language. However sanity and sustainablity are the greatest of priorities and certainly more important than just talking about the truth. So yes the mind and body duality can be resolved and can also determine the full potential of the human form. [ as it is in my current experience that I know so] And No I don't smoke the :m: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
c7ityi_: Yes, the past no longer has existence in anything aside from memory, but how does memory not prove the past? If a continuum of "now moments" does not exist, then we could not even be discussing this. Ontop of this, there exists other people with memory before we are born. If our mind creates everything, how do they have such memories? This effect being "God"? You haven't really demonstrated this God exists or has such power, so I think it pretty presumpteous to speak of him. And here is an example of a full and utter ceasation of cause-and-effect: Propelling an object in a zero-G enviroment. One only needs to impart it with enough force to get it moving, and then if never interrupted, it will move without ever ceasing. Please demonstrate this? Emergent behaviour and the nature of biological life to require nutrients to replace that which is worn out and to provide energy for various processes. How is it not? I could go down to the subatomic level, but then I cease to have scientific explanations due to the lack of knowledge at the moment. Considering nothing is "fundemental in itself", I'd imagine that not even then would we get a root cause. I have thought of going down some metaphysics/cosmology routes to attempt to explain this. Once I iron out the theories, I'll type it out. Save you'll notice that logic is inherent in the reality around us. Save for that whole, you know, Newtonian-Einstein and Quantum Physics deal, that ends up demonstrating reality far more accurately, and not depending on unproved assertions. Perhaps to some extent, yes. I'll agree with that. Sorry if you felt I took your words slightly out of context. Is a creation created unconsciously really a creation of God at all? Or just existence? Those people, Savants, actually have an abnormally developed calculation region in their brain, or if you're just refering to people who have learned quick ways of calculation, it is hardly through "intuition" that they work, but through a steramlined mathematics process which allows them to bypass a lot of the more cumbersome aspects of math. And animals don't think consciously? Then, praytell, how do chimps learn sign language? Or how do dogs learn tricks? Or how do cats learn to use litter boxes or work knobs on doors? Hell, mammalian predators are even taught how to hunt by their mothers. Okay, I'm going to call you on this one: How does one "become" the tree through such concentration? Can you demonstrate a technique we might all use? Though I would, on a lesser level, agree that concentration is necessary, as focus on thought is very necessary. It shows. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! (No offense, just kidding.) Well, technically logic. But yes. "Courage to face what is real" is certainly necessary to true knowledge, I utterly agree. This is part of the philosophical process which yields truth. However, to say that knowledge isn't rooted in thought, is also to speak of an absurdity. How do we figure anything out if not through thought? We would not even be aware of our senses if we didn't consciously focus upon them. Wow. That is remarkably arrogant. You claim I cannot "face myself" because I don't agree with you? Wow. Atleast demonstrate complete and utter proof of what you assert before making accusations of this level. Save it is quite impossible to speak of atoms having "love" for anything, specifically as the definition of "love" goes a bit further beyond "attraction". This may be true on the level of beings, as love and fear can only be felt by such, in that one could speak of beings shirking away from things in fear as a repulsive response., or clinging to what they love as an attraction. They are only "perfect in their utility" by fullfilling the job they are meant to do. I'd argue that the unconscious brain and cellular interactions in the heart have more to do with that. Can you provide proof of these people's existence? And what "creator"?
The only way to begin to conceive what God is, is to let go of every pre-conceived idea you've ever had; even that HE is a HE, because we don't even know that much. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I tend to lean towards the thinking that there is a he/she combo. I think God is present IN you, when you find those moments in life that are priceless and indescribable. I do believe God has been with me as the wind in my hair...the sun on my face...the phone call I received from a friend just when I needed it....the song playing on the radio that says exactly what I needed to hear. Do not make the mistake of searching for God anywhere in the things you can touch, see and explain, but rather, in your intuition and your KNOWING when he/she/it, is present.
C7: “ The basic certainties are obvious to anyone who has courage enough to face himself. You are not yet able to face yourself completely, in which case you must wait. Knowledge is dangerous for you. Your fear is a protection for your mental safety and well-being. ” PJ: Wow. That is remarkably arrogant. You claim I cannot "face myself" because I don't agree with you? Wow. Atleast demonstrate complete and utter proof of what you assert before making accusations of this level. Prince: I do believe C7 meant no offense in his comment. My interpretation is that given the need to tread on tenuous intellectual ground and the need to disbanden what we know [ non-attachment to knowledge] it is a fearful thing indeed. Not many have the courage to throw their sanity to the wind in pursuit of truth. In my previous post I mentioned how truth has the potential to render a persons mind shattered. How the desire to share the truth with others promotes a position of craziness and misunderstanding. There are many reasons why we cling to what we think is true as it is the fear of not knowing, of powerlessness etc and the fear of not coping with the truth that denies the truth. The truth has no obligation to fit our comfort zone. The truth has no obligation to be nice or what we want. I have found much agreement with C7's words but I also see how scrambled those words can seem. Unfortunately C7 it all comes down to being able to support your expereinces if you wish to be able to convey their message. And words alone are unable to offer such support. Logic also is not enough, as logic can be just as insane as the denial of truth is.
Time exists only in the thoughts. No rational person could say that time exists as a physical reality, independent from the mind. What is it that causes the world to exist? "Motion" (which of course is caused by another power). If the motion would just for a moment stop, the world would dissapear. It would form into spiritual energy and fall into unity. "Nothing" is fundamental... A physical, visible, "thing" (effect), can never be the cause of something. An effect cannot be the cause of another effect, even though we tend to think so. Of course, since it's in our mind. To explain something "more accurately" is pointless. The causes and answers cannot be found by going further and further in an endless spiral. I'm the evil one here, you shouldn't say you're sorry. God is not a personal or conscious "thing". I just don't know what word I should use: God, mind, will, self, nothingness, presence... There's nothing weird about that. By repetition, even a mouse can learn. They don't need conscious thinking for that. If they thought consciously, they would do the same things humans do: think about why they are, what the universe is and so on... Math is a part of the universe, it cannot explain it. It is a consequence of physics. A way to complicate in order not to understand. It is only necessary for technical achievements. Is that what I said? No. I'm saying that to know everything, we would have to stop defending ourselves and accept all ideas, so that we would have no ideas. We should just accept our life as it is. Love is magnetic attraction transformed into mental form, nothing else. It is just so much more complicated in us, since we have a brain, unlike atoms. No one has ever understood anything about what I have said. It is only possible to understand oneself... what we don't understand/accept/love is just what we haven't found in ourselves yet. I don't want to convince anyone about anything. I don't speak by my free will but because I have to. I'm not good at explaining what I know either. It would be better to do the truth instead of speaking about it.
Freedomcry75: So God is an arational feeling in your book? Quantum Quack: If she meant it as such, I shan't take offense, no. c7ityi_: Science does. Atomic movement, impacted by speed, gravity, and temperature, determines time. Inertial frames also point towards a physical foundation of time, as there is no reason why speed would impact time were it simply in the mind. "Spiritual energy"? What is "spiritual energy"? Can you tell me more about it? But yes, all in the finite world is in motion, perhaps with the exception of blackhole matter. Of course it can. Ever play pool? Strike the cueball with the cube and aim it so that the cueball strikes another. The initial cause, the stick, imparts its momentum into the cueball (the effect), which in turn imparts its momentum (cause) into another ball (effect). And nothing is no more fundemental than something. Again, please, please, please try to argue with me over "A Refutation of Non-Transcendental Idealism". Pointless? It's highly useful to come to understand the laws of the reality we deal with intimately. If we just blindly speak of things "going home", we could never have built the computer, the rocket ship, the airplane... When I post the full extent of my metaphysical notions and theological theories, I think you'll come to realize that our two theories are not entirely wrong. In order for something to learn by repetition, it must be conscious and intelligent. Here's an example: Try teaching a severely retarded person how to use sign language, someone who basically is in a vegetative state. See if you can teach them a thing. They are unresponsive, they aren't "there". And perhaps these animals -do- think about philosophical things? Elephants seem to have some form of primative religion, for instance, and display great emotional sophistication. If math - which I do not assert it can, by the way - can teach you all there is to know about the unvierse, then how it not help us to "understand"? False ideas are not worth accepting, as they are wrong. Why should we "accept our life as it is" instead of striving for more? Demonstrate this some? Then who speaks for you? FreedomCry75: Okay. Can we have a drunken fight, Irish style?
Everything is sensational. Hence, something "spiritual". Mental... Impossible, I already did. We think on a whole different way so it doesn't work. Most retarded people have a perfectly functional brain, it's just that they are unable do what we ask them. It is impossible for a human to be in a vegetative or animal state. They can only express those levels on human level. The only way to become perfect is to stop believing in evolution. To live in the presence instead of the illusional past memories and future hopes. Both physical and spiritual evolution is and endless spiral. It is pointless to strive more and more.
c7ityi_: Define "everything is sensational". And last I checked, spirit and mind were two different concepts. Perhaps. "Vegetative" refers to extremely impaired cognitive abilities, not an actual "vegetable" state. Think Terri Schiavo. Essentially, a vacant human shell, devoid of cognitive abilities. Why is it pointless? If I can infinitely grow more, why shouldn't I? I don't much like this form I am in now. I'd prefer to be better. And why ought I live in the "presence"?
Everything we experience is experienced through our senses. It isn't, I only said it was Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Everyone becomes better over time (experiences). It is unavoidable. Memories are gone, future is unknown, but presence is certain and real. The natural state of a human being is complete and eternal happiness. We can experience that in the presence. We can reach that presence, that unity, that nothingness, by doing bodily things like sleeping, eating and having sex, but only for a moment. Everything in nature is "separated" and thus seeks completion. As long as we try to find the unity outside ourselves, we can never find it, because matter resists. It must resist, otherwise the world would fall into a singularity. The presence, the goal, gives physical things their will to unite and exist.
c7ityi_: And this is spiritual...how? And this makes things mental...how? Don't make invalid statements. Great. How do we experience "happiness" in the present? Memories are also not "gone" at all. I have access to many. How? Why does it seek completion? How?
It's not invalid. It is impossible to make "valid" statements since everything we say is just a personal opinion, not an absolute reality. Music is the activity in which people generally feel most present. The greatest source of emotion. When you are completely submerged in music, you feel completely present. Yet, if you try to capture music in the moment, you capture nothing: music in the very present doesn't exist. It is not even a note, not a single note, no sound, because all this requires some duration. The present has no duration. So, there is no music at all at the very time when you feel so full of present emotion. This emotion relies upon memory, memory of notes before, and expectation of further notes. So your ability to be real, present, relies upon the illusion of time. The same applies to the universe. The whole universe is comprised of memory, but thanks to this you can have emotions and reactions, which engender your present, and then engender Nothingness. Nothingness, the present, both require your presence, so they require your emotions about an illusory universe. So, you continue to believe in this universe, because your deep, unconscious mind knows that it is necessary to enable Absolute Nothingness to be. I mean that the past is gone.
c7ityi_: Then why do you assert that you know truth at all? Why do you makea absolute statements? I've never experienced submergance in music, so I cannot speak from experience in this matter. But what? You say music brings us to this, then say music doesn't exist. So now the universe is comprised of memory so memory is real? So nothingness now requires emotions and the illusory universe? I thought you said nothingness was real? How is this so? Granted, but it impacts the future.
1. I don't 2. It is only possible to know and speak about the "personal" truth. 3. Nothing is objective. Look at that, three absolute statements. Three assertions of truths.
c7ityi_: So again, 1 + 1 = 3 is just as valid? And I might rightfully proclaim that your views are BS because my personal truth trumps yours? ALso see BeyondTimeAndSpace's response. It's quite good.
You consider them as absolute, I consider them as relative. Temporary. Changing. That just shows that everything is relative (subjective) My views cannot be BS. Neither can yours. But what is right for me doesn't have to be right for you, and reversed. You have played games. Some people do speedruns in games. They try to go through the game as fast as possible. In 0 seconds. They try to reach nothingness. Of course, matter restricts it, and that makes it fun. When they have tried every possible way, they all come to the same conclusion. They must follow a specific pattern. There is only one truth, but there are infinite ways to reach it. People who have not found the truth yet are students. If you let them talk in a room with each other, they will argue about everything. But the teachers, who have found the truth, wherever they come from, will agree with each other about everything.
I actually like this.... All roads lead lead to the same destination.....all logic paths lead to the same logical conclusion. living in a state of always thinking in absolutes is soooo tireing....hey C7? If one constantly dwells on absolutism or absolutistic philosophies one eventually has nothing to do or enjoy except endless repetition. Afterall another absolute that is often forgotten is that "Life is for the living" We can constantly chat away about absolutes in fact we could probably spend eternity doing it, but you know in the end it all comes down to what tickles your fancy. This is something I considered years ago when thinking about absolute truth. Once you get to it there simply is nothing to think about any more. And then after awhile you realise it is in the getting there that was soooo much fun and you regress into half truths to fill in your time. eventuallly you get so good at playing with nominal truths you forget the sheer boredom of thinking in absolute terms all the time. So everthing is nothing......I have no problem with that.....next!!!! What makes this illusion so facinating is how so many variations to the theme one can discover, like walking through an endless maze and never getting to the conclusion.....of course one could simply fly above the maze but hey!! where's the fun in that.?? c7 the questions I have for you are: What benefit is there in what you have to say? How does it help the reader? How can you put your absolute truth into use? What are the practical uses for it? If you respond by saying it is not you talking then I will ask you to ask who ever is talking. Do the Atlantians recognise futility, or is it just me?
It's because you understand it. Because you have found it in yourself. I hope that by saying things I can learn to not say them. I dunno, I just write things because I think I have to. Nothing is absolute. Of course it's me who is talking Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The same self talks through me as it talks through you. What? The Atlanteans left the earth long ago by not reproducing.
