What does it mean to have Random Mutations?

Unfortunately many biologists can't explain the randomness factor in genetics because they don't understand statistics that well.

As if saying "it's a random process" wraps it up nicely somehow. What is a random process?
Well, if you write a program that does a random walk through an array of arbitrary dimensions, it's something like that.
Statistics and probability are behind the so-called random effect. Although specific mutations can be acquired "totally randomly" - like from cosmic rays - the process of adapting or rejecting genetic variants is not random. Not even slightly random - the chemistry involved is very directed and "purposeful".

Of course, we are free to simply say this is metaphorical, chemistry isn't really purposeful. Then neither is [the chemistry of] evolution, in fact there is no purpose or direction at all - we just think there is because evolution gave us brains that think in, well, directed ways, but of course this can't possibly be related to chemistry being "purposeful"...

Maybe we're a metaphor of our own making, and so is everything else we think "exists", but that's not very illuminating or non-tautological is it?

 

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What do you mean by "totally random"?

Agreed.

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there isn't any such thing as " random " mutation

genetic mutations are from the environment in which the living being is in

 

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very wrong

 

but some do though

I stand corrected , I see what your saying better , and I agree

 

It seems to me you are attempting to create semantic loopholes and leap through them by crossing science with deeper philosophical questions. The answer to your question is; yes, random mutation happens by chance and is not purposefully caused. The mechanisms of mutation are not predictable and are thus random. They are most certainly not "purposefully caused" by any detectable mechanism.

Your second query is philosophical rather than scientific; the nature of the universe and whether or not it is ultimately deterministic, indeterministic, or directed does not fit within the scope of the initial question and is thus irrelevant.

As to the philosophical question, what we know so far seems to indicate that the universe is probabilistic rather than strictly deterministic and that many things are effectively random (their causes being incalculable) even if they are not strictly random. As to the ultimate nature of reality... no one knows.

~Raithere

 

Well if anyone is interested, there has been research showing all mutations are NOT random as previously thought (and still part of the theory :bugeye: ). They call these "adaptive mutations" which I would call "self-directed" because it is the cells own response and not because of something like comic rays or other mutagens.

Here is a research showing this, if anyone is interested:

Adaptive Amplification and Point Mutation Are Independent Mechanisms: Evidence for Various Stress-Inducible Mutation Mechanisms

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Most mutations are unpredictible, but it has been known that genes are protected or encouraged towards mutation by the mechanisms of redundency and error correction.

 

Actually the mutations in the paper are NOT about redundancy or "error correction" but mutants are specifically created by the organism to survive.

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That is interesting, but if it exists, it is also the result of evolution.

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It may be the result of evolution but that is besides the point. I am only discussing random mutations not that evolution is right or wrong. The theory of evolution should eliminate the word 'random' and replace it with something that is more scientific, especially with current research such as this showing that all mutations are not random.

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Why aren't they random?

 

Read the paper yourself

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It's very technical, but it seems that in times of stress, a cell might create mutagenic chemicals. The mutation itself is not directed but random, and the result of these chemicals. That is my amateur interpretation.

 

It is directed- the mutation is caused for a purposeful reason, not that it "just happened".

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The mutagenic compounds are released, but I don't see where an actual mutation is directed. Again, my reading of that abstract may be incorrect.

Neither of which are inconsistent with evolution. All that is implied is that in times of stress, a cell can deliberately encourage mutation, which would be to it's advantage, because if it's doing badly, a change might do better.

 

I never said it was against evolution. The way scientists understand random- this doesn't fit the bill.

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It has always been known that even if mutation is random, there are circumstances that can increase it. In this case, it's stress, but it's still random.

 

Increase it in a way so that its beneficial? The percentage of beneficial mutations increases dramatically- this is what we see if you read many papers related to the subject- so the trend isn't what you call "random".

I understand where you are coming from but in the scientific world this is not the same kind of "random" as is normally thought of.

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They are still random in that the effects are unpredictible. The benefit seems to be that if you find yourself in harsh conditions, you can either die or take a chance on evolutionary change, which could be beneficial or not. If the cell is likely to die anyway, why not take a chance on change? It is not at all clear that the study you cite reports that the mutations were always beneficial.