It means we rule over everything else Typical Christian attitude. Do you guys ever not think you're the center of the universe?
How typical of you rather to take this opportunity to knock Christian thinking in a completely unrelated thread! Why do you take the word 'rule' to mean something negative. It is possible to rule / manage whatever you want to call it, 'sensibly', and given that of all the life forms on earth we seem to have the most ability to manage our environment it would be a crime if we did not do that responsibly. You sound like a stuck record mate. Change the tune! peace c20
Why do you take the word 'rule' to mean something negative. Because that is the track record of Christians, so if the shoe fits... It is possible to rule / manage whatever you want to call it, 'sensibly', and given that of all the life forms on earth we seem to have the most ability to manage our environment it would be a crime if we did not do that responsibly. Please note that the last hundreds of years was 'managed' by theists, mostly Christians. Again, it is their track record that speaks volumes. You sound like a stuck record mate. Change the tune! The stuck record IS 'Christian rule' and yes, I'm trying to change that tune.
C20: Why do you take the word 'rule' to mean something negative? (Q): Because that is the track record of Christians, so if the shoe fits... Stereotype all you need to. Whatever works for you eh? C20: It is possible to rule / manage whatever you want to call it, 'sensibly', and given that of all the life forms on earth we seem to have the most ability to manage our environment it would be a crime if we did not do that responsibly. (Q): Please note that the last hundreds of years was 'managed' by theists, mostly Christians. Again, it is their track record that speaks volumes. You had better carry on bashing Christians then until you find the real culprit. C20: You sound like a stuck record mate. Change the tune! (Q): The stuck record IS 'Christian rule' and yes, I'm trying to change that tune. Where on earth was I talking about Christian rule!!! This is your hang up not mine. I was talking about what it means to be human and the responsibilities that come with our position in the food chain. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! peace c20
What do you mean by this? And humans being "sufficiently different" from animals -- how do justify this statement? Do you think humans are somehow better than animals, morally superior? You are a Christian, right? Do you believe that God created animals? If you believe that God created animals, then I can only say that you show a great lack of respect and reverence for God's creations. So far, what you have said about animals is nothing but regurgitating cheap humanist, unprovable assumptions about how animals supposedly are. Where did God say, "Hey, human, now go and and be bold and make farfetched assumptions about My other creations, treat them for what you think they are, not for what I, their Creator, hold them. I don't mind. You know, you are so great, and I love your mind, I love being defined by what you say that I am!"?? Shame on you. You have defined cats and dogs to be that way as you say -- and this is how you treat them. And the poor things, depending on you for their survival, bend to your treatment, and indeed appear to become what you have defined them as. And this is why, my dear Light Eagle, ALL you get from a dog is that he is a "pack animal", and from a cat that he is with you "as long as he is fed". You don't offer them to be more to you, so you get only what you have offered them.
Nor superior, just different. I'm not berating animals. I'm just trying to point out differences. Why? I believe in the process of evolution, but I believe that this process was guided by God. I believe the universe is ~15 billion years old, but that it was created by God. I believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, but that it was brought into existence by God, by whatever means. All life may have been derived from a metazoan, but I believe it was a guided process by the hand of God. Why do you say that I have lack of respect? I have immense respect for all life and all creation. I have been in deserts, southwestern and sub- to tropical eastern African countries and have always stood in absolute awe at what is out there in terms of creation. I am definately not a humanist. There are times when a human being looses his right to be treated like one. Someone who murders or rapes for example. I live by the code of personal responsibility towards my God, myself and others. You have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I'm not saying that all an animal desirves is to get fed. I have listened to music with the dog on my lap for hours and ran around outside tossing it the ball. I was really very fond of the dog ("was" because it died 2 years ago). All I was trying to say was that the dog's "love" for me was not motivated by a choice, but by the affection I lavished upon it. I have no problem with the fact that the dog did not make a choice. I would have no problem with the fact if it should have only wanted a pat now and again and some food. I'm not saying that this is all it desirves. I'm trying to say that humans can make a choice to love "in spite of," where animals can not.
So could the fact that we have a choice "to love or not to love" be one of our defining attributes as to being human?
You could say that the one defining attribute for being human - to be able to destroy the planet on which we live. No other creature on this planet has ever been able to do that, even accidentally.
completely agree. no other animal has done the evil human kind has--especially in its mode as ruler of the Earth in western mythology you can see how the attitude of human superiority cam e about. it is obvious in the Genesis mtyh wherewe are told by 'God' we have dominion over.....bu usually tyhe ancient Greek version of mythic human aggrandizement is not as revealed..... it is where the Olympian gods decide that all te cthonic gods with tails must be demonized. ie., and superhuman cartoon gods deified. tey of course become distant, aloof, up the mountain top in the clouds and the poster her who asumes only humans can choose t love. i would recommend you lose your set views and rather listen to animals and Nature. you will be surprised
Stereotype all you need to. Whatever works for you eh? And why shouldn't I sterotype, are not Christians the same? Do they not believe in the same things, equally and unequivocally when it comes to their faith? If not, then they're all making up their own personal religions to suit their needs, just like you have done. If that is the case, it clearly negates the very beliefs they hold and try to prop up. You had better carry on bashing Christians then until you find the real culprit. Every Christian is the real culprit. Every Muslim is the real culprit. Anyone having beliefs in imaginary gods are equally to blame for the fantasies and ignorance they propagate. Where on earth was I talking about Christian rule!!! This is your hang up not mine. I was talking about what it means to be human and the responsibilities that come with our position in the food chain. Then BE responsible. Stop believing in fairy tales. Stop telling others to believe in fairy tales. Get a grip and start using your brains. Be human.
Kill us all then. Then you will have the God free utopia that you dream of. You call it fairy tales. I call it reality. I believe, you dont. I am what I am. I guess if you hate this so much you are either going to have to kill anyone claiming to hold religious beliefs or carry on bleating your anti-religion patter for the rest of your life. Whatever you wish. peace c20
Kill us all then. Then you will have the God free utopia that you dream of. Why go to such extremes? An education would suffice. You call it fairy tales. I call it reality. Yes, all theists are under the delusion their beliefs are somehow a reality as they have not the ability to discern reality from fantasy. And it's a vicious circle, one that you've been caught up in, that the ability to discern reality from fantasy is suppressed by the very dogmas that are supported. You're no different than other theists who have created their own versions of 'reality' tailored to suit their personal needs, completely different than the 'reality' another theist has created, and another, and so on... How many realities will theists create? One for each of them, of course. I'm actually quite suprised you've not seen this pattern made evident here on these forums. And of course, when pressed with the hard questions, theists become silent or begin preaching when trying to explain how their versions of reality are congruent with... reality. I believe, you dont. I am what I am. You believe that which you've conjured from your own imagination, so yes, I certainly don't believe in that. Nor do I believe the countless, endless versions of reality other theists have conjured from their imaginations. Are we all to believe that YOUR version of reality is the correct one? If so, why aren't we all worshipping you? I guess if you hate this so much you are either going to have to kill anyone claiming to hold religious beliefs or carry on bleating your anti-religion patter for the rest of your life. Whatever you wish. Killing those who don't hold the same beliefs is a theist ideal. Educating those who imagine their own versions of reality is a human ideal.
You and I are going to have to call this a day. There is no common ground with which to build something positive on. You say I am delusional. I say I am not. Let us not degenerate into pantomime. Educate those who have ears (Q) if you are indeed a worthy teacher. peace c20
There is no common ground with which to build something positive on. Of course not, you have created your own little fantasy world not grounded in reality. You don't even have common ground with other Christians. And if you choose to have common ground that runs contrary to your beliefs, you are a hypocrite. It is a far cry from anything 'positive.' I'm trying to introduce you to the reality we all share, the one we can all agree upon, void of imaginary beings. That is common ground, that is positive. You say I am delusional. I say I am not. Of course you are going to say you're not delusional, that is exactly the point. Your religious fantasies have precluded your ability to rationalize. Simply logic as left you. Those who see reality for what it is, void of religious fantasies, all have common ground; reality. Educate those who have ears (Q) if you are indeed a worthy teacher. Typical theist. You don't want to be educated. You would much rather remain ignorant and wallow in your fantasies. Magical gods, wispy angels and evil demons are far more interesting than boring reality.
LightEagle, What differences? What you have presented so far are assumptions about animals, assumptions AS SEEN FROM THE HUMAN PERSPECTIVE. You have not offered any autonomous definitions of what it means to be human, only relational ones. Surely, humans are not the same as animals -- but what have you stated by that? What are you trying to say by it? Because you argue like a pissy little insecure Christian theist, seeing the atheist position as a threat to him. Grow some balls. You have argued from a humanist position?. And what does it mean, to "treat someone like a human being"? So you don't believe in forgiveness and that God is almighty? Is someone pointing a gun at your head? Noone is calling you to defend or explain yourself. I can't read minds. Yet. Assumptions, assumptions and nothing more. Maybe God is sending animals to people so that people would learn something about God? Whose judgment about the Creation is ultimate: yours, or God's? * * * Quantum Quack, Now think of the Constitution or the Declaration of Human Rights. They use the term "human" a lot. Whenever the Declaration states "human", are we to read 'entity with the ability to love voluntarily'? Does this sound good to you? "Entities with the ability to love voluntarily have the right to personal freedom"? Yes? Or in a medical textbook: "Entities with the ability to love voluntarily have a heart made of four parts"? I don't think so. Think practical and realistic, people. High-flying definitions are cool, but usually completely useless.
Read it carefully, with complete attention, if you find anything of use, use it, else disregard it and don't pay anymore attention to it.
Water, I do not expect that this thread or a hundred like it will resolve this question adequatley. But every now and then someone comes up with something that stikes a chord for me and that was the ability to be self determined in who, what and how we love. I found this strikingly pertinent to the question and goes down in a list of possible meanings. Certainly it isn't the final word and nor would it be expected to be. The ability to of a love choice I think if thought about clearly would be something that would help define what it means to be human. The title or label of "human" attempts to exclude that which isn't human. So to define human we would have to define what not being human means as well. Now I think that is going to take some doing and much discussion to get even close.... However the love choice is certainly worth adding to the list of things that may help with that definition.
So what? So here we are, humans who call themselves humans, waiting for the next generations to figure out what it means to be human? So here we are, waiting for someone else to tell us who we are -- when we will be long dead before they do? Indeed, we are doomed if we leave it up to someone else to tell us who we are. I hate to quote proverbial sentences, but this one definitely applies: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
