What creationists know

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Carico, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Carico Registered Member

    Here's what creationists know about the earth and the universe:

    1) That the earth was created from water and by water
    2) That God created the earth
    3) How long it took God to create the earth
    4) Why the sun just happens to be positioned the exact distance away from the earth to sustain life on earth
    5) The purpose for the stars and moon
    6) How man was created and why
    7) Why the flesh and bones of man decay into dust
    8) How and why animals & humans each reproduce themselves and not other animals
    8) How the earth and all living things will end
    9) What happens after humans die
    10) That there is a God and who He is

    That's just the tip of the iceberg of what creationists know. Scientists know NONE of the above which is why they're constantly exploring and always will continue to do so. ;)
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  3. geologyrocks Registered Senior Member

    Just fixing that for you ;)
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  5. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    If you replace "know" with "believe" and your post is correct. Scientists, employing logic as the must, are aware that no "fact" about the material universe can ever be unassailably "known" to be 100% true. Will the Sun rise tomorrow? Probably, but there is a small chance that it won't. Did the Sun rise this morning? It seems to have, but there is a very small chance that it didn't and I have both had my life saved and my senses fooled into thinking that it did.

    I respect your right to believe in what the Bible tells you, but don't condescend and suggest that people who prefer strict logic to ancient tomes that you believe to be authoritative because you were taught that it is the Word of God (and you believe that because you learned it from trusted sources like "parents") are less knowledgeable than you are.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2008
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The differentiation of creationists and scientists is unusual. A new tack in the campaign ?
  8. solidsquid Registered Member

    Carico, do you know what the definition of "futile" is?
  9. Carico Registered Member

    Sorry but logic isn't claiming that apes can turn into humans. ;) Nor is logic making assertions that no one in the past or present has observed or documented such as a global ice age. Those are the things of science fiction. ;)
  10. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Logic is not limited to things you see yourself. Logic and science tell us that the Sun is made mostly of hydrogen, yet no one has ever been there, nor collected a sample, nor could we ever. Logic and science tell us that the Moon is held in orbit by gravity, the same force that pulls an apple straight down to the ground. Logic and science tell us that the Earth revolves around the Sun, rather than vice versa, yet damned if it doesn't look and feel slightly different.

    Logic and science do not tell is that apes can turn into men, it tells us that modern man and modern apes have common ancestors. Apparently the Bible doesn't have pictures of the various other hominids that have lived on this planet, but they clearly did exist and you can see their fossils. The 'missing link' between those hominids and man, was found long ago leaving us with quite a strong understanding of the evolution of man over the past few million years.

    Science tells us about one "global" ice age that I know of (aka "Snowball Earth") but it is more hypothesis at this stage. There have been many glacial periods that were less than global, though, as your eyes and logic can demonstrate if you your eyes and mind remain open. If you come to places in New York, there is clear evidence of glaciation. It was not a theory developed on a whim it was a process of slowly accumulating evidence for it, until eventually few who viewed the evidence could dispute it as the most likely explanation for what we see. It was a theory that virtually everyone resisted at first, until the evidence became overwhelming. If you see me come into your house wet and holding an umbrella, logic does not require that you see the rain and feel it on your skin to accept that it was there. Without seeing it yourself the most you'd ever have is circumstantial evidence of it, but the empiricism of science is not naive experientialism that requires direct proof in every case. Indeed, there is no direct proof that subatomic particles exist, and when Einstein proved that atoms exist he did it by means of the circumstantial evidence that we call "Brownian motion."

    (Geologists might, as might biologists about evolution, be wrong in their beliefs about glaciation, but, again, the Sun may not rise tomorrow too. Anything is possible, though some things are so very unlikely that you can ignore the possibility of their happening in a million lifetimes.)

    Surely it is not logic that made people take comfort in the story of a man who healed the sick, raised the dead, and performed miracles in the name of God, wandered around from one end of the middle east to the other gathering his followers and teaching all who would listen, was executed because the movement he started angered the authorities, and later rose from the dead and was seen alive again by his disciples. It's fine if you choose to believe it, though, all logic aside. Still logic has to be left aside to believe in that, since regular experience runs counter to the fantastic elements of that story.

    You may also believe in Jesus, who's life (we read) was also very similar to that described above. It's certainly not "logic" that leads you conclude that the man described in the last paragraph (Apollonius of Tyana) is some sort of fiction made up by his crazy followers, whereas Jesus is *real,* it's just preference.
  11. Vkothii Banned Banned

    Nor is claiming that Darwin said that we're apes that changed into humans.

    We're still apes, you dumb ape. When did we stop being primates?

    Since you weren't born when your mother's great-great-grandfather was buried, how do you know he existed? How can you be sure?
    Logically, since you can never prove your mother had a great-great-grandfather, you cannot prove that you or your mother exist, since most of your ancestors aren't around to say so??
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    At last! Some answers to my questions!

    How, exactly?

    How long did it take?

    Why? Tell me.

    What are their purposes?

    How was man created, exactly? Please list the steps in detail.

    And why?

    Why do they?

    This discussion is already happening in another thread.

    How will they end?

    What happens?

    Who is He?
  13. Hercules Rockefeller voltage gated ion channel Moderator

    Oh FFS…

    I see Scifourms has a brand new idiot troll. This would be a perfect opportunity to exercise some common sense and practicality and BAN the troll now before he/she/it manages to whip up numerous shit storms. This is clearly its intension. Why should we let it? Why should we put up with it?

    Can the moderators PLEASE be pro-active for once and do us all a real solid. Yeah?
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    I'm actually interested in all these answers the Creationists apparently have for the above questions.

    I hope that Carico, as an expert in such things, will be able to enlighten us all.
  15. Carico Registered Member

    Then by your reasoning, Jesus is Lord because we say so since we don't have to have witnesses of his life and death. But we DO have witnesses! :)

    But no one has ever witnessed an ape turning into a human, nor is it logical since each species reproduces itself in reality, nor have any ancient peoples passed along accounts of our ape ancestors. :D So evolution is a total and complete fairy tale since it can't be verified by logic, witnesses or reality. In fact, it's an embarrassment to mankind that so many people can be so easily duped into believing a theory as bizarre and impossible as evolution is, simply because they believe the letters after someone's name. And that's precisely why no one knows who the common ancestor is, or the first speaking man because they're as imaginary as the fable itself it. Sorry. ;)
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2008
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

    Funny, considering that Creationists used to "know" that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

    And what the hell does "from water and by water" mean? That's not how the Earth was formed.
  17. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    I'd love to hear the creationists' knowledge of the purpose of stars.
  18. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

  19. Carico Registered Member

    So where in the bible does it say, "The sun revolved around the earth?" Creationists have always know that the earth is round unlike scientists who didn't know that until they Middle Ages. ;)

    Oh yes the earth was formed out of water and by water. In fact the sky separates the water above the sky from the water below the sky. But since scientists only believe what they can see, (except of course when predicting the future or imagining the past) they of course don't know that. ;) The surface of the earth is composed of 70% water and 30% land. The human body is composed of 80% water and most animals gestate in water. So water is the life-producing source.;)
  20. Harro Registered Senior Member

    OH the witnesses whose stories a were written in a book about 100 years after the event?
    Why did not god write the book him/her self?

    Without evolution the planet would be dead or neer lifeless long ago. Unless all species lived on this planet at the same time. In which case not all living creatures have become extinct yet? Maybe your god replaced the extinct speices with new ones?

    Science theory becomes stronger with more evidence. If new evidence is found to dispute a threory it is debunked or the theory evolves into a new theory to fit the evidence.

    There is evidence to suport evolution, including fossils, DNA heredity,Atomic decay like carbon dating. The supporting evidence makes evolution theory stronger and more believable.

    The point is if a new threory can explain why there is no evolution and it is suported by evidence and new evidence that debunks the old theory, then people adopt and adapt the new threory. Pretty much in the same way evolution works :)
  21. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member


    From the Wik article on Galileo:

    "Western Christian biblical references Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc."

    It is on passages such as these that christianity of old demanded that everyone accept that the sun revolved around the earth.

    I thought Galileo's fight with the Vatican was well known?

    You have proven nothing with this statement other than there's a lot of water. And you've done so quoting well known scientific observation, rather than anything in the bible.
  22. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

    Hilarious this thread got moved. If my scientific falsehoods were threatened by metaphysical truth, I would move the thread too.
  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Enterprise D,

    His question was; So where in the bible does it say, "The sun revolved around the earth?"

    You have yet to provide an answer.


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